[Item Suggestion] Plague charm, support-oriented counter-support item

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CoolHeroBro

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Alright, so Riot's identified healing as a problem. Certain healing champs make lane sustainability a non-issue, so much so that it's almost impossible to make someone like Soraka ever want to bluepill. I'm saying this as a longtime Soraka player (she's practically my "main", though I tend to play other supports and dabble in nukers like Sion).

I figure, the best way to solve this problem is by giving support a new, counter-healing item. At present, most supports are little more than sustainbots, and they're the best candidates for aggressively countering healing champs since they're mostly free from having to farm. I also feel like autoattacks as harassment are almost completely unheard of unless it's Caitlyn or Ashe or something.

I've changed it slightly. As some pointed out, having gold/10 on an item you can buy immediately is kind of a bad idea. Instead it builds into another item with Lucky Pick. This way, it can still provide the benefits of a gold/10 itemization path, AND give a little movespeed bonus that some supports seem to be lacking, without taking away its ability to counter healing at very early levels where it is most effective.

Quote:
Item name: Plague Charm
Cost: 390
UNIQUE passive: autoattacks apply a 1-second debuff that reduces all healing and regeneration effects by 30%.
This item and Kage's Lucky Pick build into:

Quote:
Item name: Plague Idol
Combine Cost: 500
8% Movement speed
30 AP
UNIQUE passive: autoattacks apply a 1-second debuff that reduces all healing and regeneration effects by 35%.
Thoughts?


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Snes C

Senior Member

07-13-2011

That's the cheapest Gold Per 10 item in the game (and it's twice as effective as all the others, but I'll give you some credit and assume that's a mistake). It pays for itself in just a few minutes, meaning everyone will buy it. It's also the cheapest movement speed item in the game, so people will be stacking that as well.


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CoolHeroBro

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnesController View Post
That's the cheapest Gold Per 10 item in the game (and it's twice as effective as all the others, but I'll give you some credit and assume that's a mistake). It pays for itself in just a few minutes, meaning everyone will buy it. It's also the cheapest movement speed item in the game, so people will be stacking that as well.
Yeah, wow. The gold generation bonus was kind of tacked on as an afterthought. I've been neglecting League for the past few days in favor of HoN, and for some reason I remembered gold items as 10 per 5 rather than vice versa.

In any case, other than the tiny movespeed bonus, it gives absolutely no base stats or damage bonus of any kind. 8% is, I feel, rather justified. I fail to see how stacking them would be effective.

I guess I should have specified wanting feedback on the passive.


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Autocthon

Senior Member

07-13-2011

3/10 isn't twice as effective as 5/10

Now giving consideration to the costs...

I'd recommend it be more expensive (~800) with a non gold/10 upgrade. Or have it upgrade form a gold/10 item.


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CoolHeroBro

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autocthon View Post
3/10 isn't twice as effective as 5/10

Now giving consideration to the costs...

I'd recommend it be more expensive (~800) with a non gold/10 upgrade. Or have it upgrade form a gold/10 item.
I changed it retroactively, it used to be 5 per 5. Point is I wanted it to be about half as effective in gold generation as other gold/5 items but I ended up making a pretty big... error?

You are right, though, it does do a little too much for how much it costs. Problem is it pretty much needs to be an item you can start with because most of the problem with heals and sustainability is in the early laning phase and having to farm it up kind of makes it a non option, especially considering it would be best used on supports that can really lay on someone else with autoattacks without having to worry about lasthitting creeps.

I think I may have a solution...


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Snes C

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolHeroBro View Post
Yeah, wow. The gold generation bonus was kind of tacked on as an afterthought. I've been neglecting League for the past few days in favor of HoN, and for some reason I remembered gold items as 10 per 5 rather than vice versa.

In any case, other than the tiny movespeed bonus, it gives absolutely no base stats or damage bonus of any kind. 8% is, I feel, rather justified. I fail to see how stacking them would be effective.

I guess I should have specified wanting feedback on the passive.
You say it offers no base stats as if it was a good thing. And yes, I'd up the price significantly. Is this supposed to be a starting item? I wouldn't advise it. I'd make this a lower-tier advanced item costing somewhere around 1000g. Drop the Gold Per 10. It's unnecessary. Give it some meaningful stat, like Mana or Mana Per 10. And make sure you take into consideration how this will hurt lifesteal and spell vamp builds.


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Snes C

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Okay, new items, new criticisms. And I hope you know I'm only being so critical because I think you have a decent idea here and I want to see it executed well.

Plague Charm
This item would be two firsts in this game: the first basic item without any stats, and the first non-boot basic item with a unique passive. Neither of these things are good. I suggest making this an advanced item that builds into the Idol.

Plague Idol
This would be the third cheapest legendary item in the game, and without a doubt the most useless. The stats are pretty pathetic. The fact that this comes from a Gold Per 10 item makes it even lamer. You'd expect someone to grap Kage's early and get this much later after they've saved up enough but why would you get this when there are so many more valuable legendary items?

Both
My biggest problem with these items is that, while they're supposed to mainly counter healing abilities, I can't see how they wouldn't be used more to counter lifesteal, spell vamp, and HP/5 items. An idea I had was that this could come into effect only if the healing exceeds a flat amount, like 50 HP, or a percentage of the champions total health, like 15%. Any healing greater than that gets a reduction.

Also, you have items that apply a short on-hit effect, but don't give any bonus to the champion's basic attack. I'd give them both some attack speed or something.

How I'd Do It
Plague Charm builds from a Dagger and a Sapphire Chrystal (making it the only advanced Mana/Attack Speed item in the game) and has a two-second healing reduction of the kind I talked about earlier. Plague Idol builds from Plague Charm and Kage's Lucky Pick, has a slightly more effective healing reduction, and has the price and stats typical of a legendary item.

That may be more than two cents, but there you are.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

07-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnesController View Post
That may be more than two cents, but there you are.
I've never been the man to refuse a nickel when he asked for two cents.

OT, the idea sounds alright, except the application of the item is kinda specific. And the amount it affects for 1 second, the chances their healer will heal during that debuff are the chances a Cho's level 1 Vorpal Spike will kill you...or a single minion. If the debuff could be applied in a better way (more time, aura, specific ceiling to healing, pick any), it probably would be more effective. But good to see someone come up with ideas.