@Morello/Xypherous: Can we get an update on the stealth remake please?

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kitten Wizard

Member

07-12-2011

I have a suggestion for the stealth mechanics.

I like the perma stealth on eve/twitch, and I do like the view radius on champions, but I think it should be around half of Ashe's auto attack range.

I also find that vision range should be directed more toward the front of the character because realistically the champion can view stealthy characters in front of them easier then they can hear stealthy characters behind them. A visual representation would be http://i51.tinypic.com/103fwc1.jpg

I would also like damage to show stealthed units, but not REVEAL them at all. The unit would be stealthed for all intensive purposes. Once they stop taking damage for 1 second, they would be un-viewable again.
-Example: Anivia drops her ultimate on the ground on minions and it gives her sight of an incoming Twitch that would be otherwise outside of her built in stealth vision range. Once twitch retreats back out of the ultimate, he would become un-viewable again.

To fix Oracles, I think that having it throw out a pulse every 5 seconds around the user that would give sight to stealthed units for 2 seconds, would solve the issue of totally breaking stealthed units, and cause ward sweeping to take a lot longer (~5-10 seconds).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

guno

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-12-2011

you'll definately need to give twitch an escape mechanism since now stealth won't get him out of bad situations


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

UberMagus

Senior Member

07-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirbeefcake View Post
Shurelia or Xypherous.

One of the problems i noticed with Eve was that even with Oracles and wards with her ultimate she will still catch up to you short of flashing out and even with oracles by the time you saw he she was usually on top of you and stunning you. I know shes being changed but im just a little worried that this might be what happens with this iteration and (if) you guys do keep oracles but reduce its range that it will make people more paranoid and cause more passive play.

Does her ult still retain the movespeed boost and will her stun retain the same duration it had before? Im asking because her ability to close the gap with her speed and ghost and stun made her impossible to escape from and hence causes all the problems with her.
Honestly, her ability to run you down wasn't ever the real problem. Hell, Vayne does it better AND with range(and true damage).

Basically, it's SUPPOSED to be really hard to get away from her, else what's the point? She's an assassin, she doesn't push that well, she doesn't jungle well(any more), she can't initiate, and she can't take a hit. All she can(could) really do well was kill individual targets, and, even then, only if they didn't have a CC or Flash up.

Oh, and, before the nerf, she could deal some appreciable damage in teamfights because of her ult's passive, but only if the team didn't focus her down.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Thanorodd

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten Wizard View Post
I have a suggestion for the stealth mechanics.

I like the perma stealth on eve/twitch, and I do like the view radius on champions, but I think it should be around half of Ashe's auto attack range.

I also find that vision range should be directed more toward the front of the character because realistically the champion can view stealthy characters in front of them easier then they can hear stealthy characters behind them. A visual representation would be http://i51.tinypic.com/103fwc1.jpg

I would also like damage to show stealthed units, but not REVEAL them at all. The unit would be stealthed for all intensive purposes. Once they stop taking damage for 1 second, they would be un-viewable again.
-Example: Anivia drops her ultimate on the ground on minions and it gives her sight of an incoming Twitch that would be otherwise outside of her built in stealth vision range. Once twitch retreats back out of the ultimate, he would become un-viewable again.

To fix Oracles, I think that having it throw out a pulse every 5 seconds around the user that would give sight to stealthed units for 2 seconds, would solve the issue of totally breaking stealthed units, and cause ward sweeping to take a lot longer (~5-10 seconds).
You are playing a Summoner and controlling a Champion, not playing a Champion. Your Champion's perceptions are irrelevant to the equation.

This is why you have Summoner Spells, can see wards, etc. How else could you explain global vision... of anything?

You can't seriously be arguing on the "this makes sense for my champion" grounds. Yeesh.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

PixelPoet

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Junior Member

07-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkysHammer View Post
This makes her lane less bad. FACE PALM she has no lane
Well now she can actually last hit more easily with ranged enemies in her lane, since she won't be visible to them if they are behind their minions until she swoops in for the last hit. Granted, if the ranged champ is effectively zoning the lane by your minions, it hurts her, but that also leaves the enemy open for ganking.

It also gives her essentially perma-stealth at level 1, which is not something she had before, she had a 10 second stealth that cost a nice chunk of mana. This perma stealth allows her to roam more easily, since the enemy will not know if you are in lane or roaming 90% of the time unless you are last hitting in lane.

Overall, it adds more of a "mind game" to her early game, since you will constantly be going in and out of detection which she could do before, but it would cost her a large portion of her mana.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Chyp

Junior Member

07-12-2011

I'm surprised that you, as a company that often talks about everything having "counter play", would consider removing another team's wards a detrimental to the game. In removing oracles do you not completely remove the counter play to warding? I could see claiming that warding in itself costs players, but honestly with supports needing so little as items go mass warding for these characters isn't considered costly.

Basically: If ward sweeping is detrimental, then how do you propose countering warding? If we can't remove others' vision via wards why even have the fog of war? Not being able to destroy wards will allow teams with good support players to have vision of every key point in the map for basically the entire game.


Edit:
Also, do you intend for every Baron/Dragon to come down to either having their entire team dead or "who is the better smiter" since we will not be able to remove the other team's vision?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hentaru

Junior Member

07-12-2011

Twitch sounds screwed...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Thanorodd

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chyp View Post
I'm surprised that you, as a company that often talks about everything having "counter play", would consider removing another team's wards a detrimental to the game. In removing oracles do you not completely remove the counter play to warding? I could see claiming that warding in itself costs players, but honestly with supports needing so little as items go mass warding for these characters isn't considered costly.

Basically: If ward sweeping is detrimental, then how do you propose countering warding? If we can't remove others' vision via wards why even have the fog of war? Not being able to destroy wards will allow teams with good support players to have vision of every key point in the map for basically the entire game.
It adds a decision point between pink and green wards, and increases the usefulness of pink wards beyond just Dragon and Baron (and even then they're not always necessary currently).

You forgot pink wards existed, didn't you? The problem is counterplaying wards is way too easy and comes at no cost currently.

Additionally, the current system promotes snowballing, because once a team has map control, they're extremely likely to keep it due to Oracle's being safe and their wards still being up. Snowballing is something they're trying to minimize. Removing Oracle's kills two birds with one stone.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Fateborn

Senior Member

07-12-2011

Looks like I'm going to try and develop a third long-term stealth champion for you guys. Maybe you'll like it. =)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

0bi Wan Kenobi

Senior Member

07-12-2011

@Xypherous/Reds Not sure if you're still keeping up with this thread but just thought I'd chime in with a quick reply.

Maybe remove Oracles Elixir and add some sort of counter ward item that has to be used strategically.. like a ward that can see stealthed wards but doesn't give Fog of War vision and probably should not have a super long duration.. with the stealth rework you could just remake pink wards into a "counter ward" beacon of some kind.

Or think something like DotA's Gem of Truesight.. although we don't have item dropping in LoL atm so some things might have to change. (basically give some more risk/reward for scouting wards , i.e. you have to take up an item slot.)

I saw earlier "wriggles for support".. could make this item drop "counter wards" that don't give Fog of War vision (only vision around the unit like teemo shrooms) but do reveal stealthed wards within a certain radius (not sure what the duration for these should be). This way you can't just roll around the entire map w/ oracle active to sweep wards but rather have to sacrifice an item slot and must place these "counter wards" strategically.