Jarvan - E or Q

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KrunchyKibbles

Senior Member

06-29-2011

Idk why, but I prefer to max my E first. After reading some of these posts, I might try maxing q first tho :/


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Crownz

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Senior Member

06-29-2011

take ignite with jarvan
go Q first
level 3 or 5 u are boss

Tips : go near enemy hit once and W to avoid damage and slow to hit
1 hit - 1 bar health

your Q will take like 2 to 3 bar health.
Then ignite. GG

too OP.


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freakigod

Senior Member

06-29-2011

R>q>w>e


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Tha Dynamite

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Senior Member

06-29-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
all of j4's skills are good, so i wouldn't exactly call it a 'no-brainer'.

the question here is 'which skill should you be harassing with in lane?' and the answer is E. since you should be harassing with E, if you want better harass you should probably also level E. not only is E the safer harass, it can be used to zone while you're harassing. it's great, but the answer here isn't completely black and white--E isn't the 'end all, be all' of laning. again, this isn't a no-brainer.

harassment isn't simply a calculation of what will do the most damage if you keep the skill on cooldown without regards to mana or your own safety. ultimately it's what will help you increase your farm while hurting your opponents' farm, and doing it with as little risk as possible.
Wait, what the ****?
You're just saying a bunch of things about E and harassment that makes no sense.
In what way is E better than Q at harassment?

I've already said this several times on this thread alone.

First of all, the E is so easy to dodge. There is a small circle indicator about three-fourths of a second before the flag drops down. Kind of similar to Kog Maw's ultimate.

Second of all, the skill is MAGIC DAMAGE. No normal Jarvan would have any sort of magic penetration. So not only does his Q have more base damage, you'll do more damage overall after penetration too.

Further on this point, most champions have a stable 30 magic resistance from the start, but many start with less than 20 armor. Exploiting this fact and getting a powerful physical based attack early on that can further lower armor is the best thing that you could possibly do.

Third of all, using the Standard as a harassment tool is the very last thing I would ever want to do, ever.
Why? Because its my escape mechanism.
I play junglers often (half my games maybe). If there was a Jarvan in a lane that spams Standard for harassment, I would be thanking the LoL gods for a free kill.
Why would I ever literally throw away my escape mechanism that has a HUGE cooldown just for that tiny amount of damage I could possibly do if the target is stupid enough to stay that long?
And why would I rather not use Dragon Strike which has a significantly lower cooldown over levels that can come back faster so I can also make my get-away in time if need be?

What does Q have over E?
-A LOT harder to dodge. It becomes a testament of whether you can land it and not whether they can dodge it.
-Lower cooldown. And if you level it, it gets shorter.
-More damage.
-SAFER since you don't have to waste your Standard.
Btw, how exactly is using Standard safer? It only has about 100 more range. Dragon Strike already has 770 range, which is longer than most spells and every single auto-attack in the game. Its one of the safest harassment tools in the game.

So no, it IS black and white and it IS a no-brainer. Standard is an AWFUL harassment tool and the very last thing I would ever want to possibly do as Jarvan.


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Tha Dynamite

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Senior Member

06-30-2011

You clearly didn't look at my post.

You didn't address the fact that E is hard to land since there is an indicator of where it is going to land. Its like Kog Maw's ult or Karthus' Q. Players dodge those easily.

You claim that Q is unsafe to harass with. It has a lower mana cost. It has a huge range. Its easy to land. It has a lower cooldown that only gets lower. What is unsafe about it?

Furthermore, how is the fact that you need to save E and not use it randomly for superficial damage not a reason you should use your alternative skill with a lower, less punishable cooldown instead?
Let me put it this way. E is WORST for harassment because you need to save it. Does it mean Q is better for harassment? YES. How is it different.

At your last point. You're hilarious. If an Nocturne, Trundle or Nunu comes out of the jungle and you're anywhere near the middle of the lane, you're going to get caught if you don't have an escape or burn a summoner spell. I play junglers and I play Jarvan. Any champion without an escape is a free kill if done correctly. Only exception is if they don't go anywhere near the river.


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Mejakallu

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Senior Member

06-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
the attack speed buff very much does work with armor pen
Only if you get to auto-attack constantly, which your opponent shouldn't let you do. You also should generally not be pushing the lane either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
if we only cared about the amount of poke damage j4 could do in the lane, then Q would be the winner by a small amount
Q does more damage to target at every rank and is a pretty reasonable debuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
but since harassment in the lane is leading up to two ends (denial or a kill), E is the better choice. you can effectively zone and harass with the same skill, which will save you mana and keep you relatively safe.
How do you harass and zone an opponent? Hit them with damage.
Q = more damage
Q = more frequent damage
Q = less cost until level 4/5

The very nature of Q in that they don't know when it is coming, a lot harder to dodge, hits for more, and debuffs them makes it a better poking, harassing, and eventual threat as a zoning tool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
the question here is 'which skill should you be harassing with in lane?' and the answer is E. since you should be harassing with E, if you want better harass you should probably also level E. not only is E the safer harass, it can be used to zone while you're harassing. it's great
You've still yet to fully justify how it is the preferred harass in lane given numerous counter points. It costs more mana, is easier to dodge, and has a static cooldown. There's nothing preventing you from Qing once, and then waiting it to refresh to then do an immediate E+Q combo. Maxing Q reduces the CD by a fair amount.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
harassment isn't simply a calculation of what will do the most damage if you keep the skill on cooldown without regards to mana or your own safety.
Q is cheaper on mana, lower cooldown. and just as safe is not safer than E (60 range difference, not to mention Q is one of those skills that extends a tiny bit past the skillshot indicator.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
ultimately it's what will help you increase your farm while hurting your opponents' farm, and doing it with as little risk as possible.
Q is also better at farming because of the increased damage and synergy with armour pen. You're last hitting minions, not beating them down with multiple attacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
perhaps you should go back and read my original post on the first page--that laid everything out pretty neatly. feel free to ask questions about it if something isn't very clear (or try it yourself for a while if you doubt it as a practice).
Your points have since been largely refuted by actual game mechanics which show that Q is just as good of a harass and zoning tool as E, if not better.

I shall ignore the rest of that post because I don't even understand what you're saying.


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LastingFun

Junior Member

07-08-2011

Q...... jarvan's been nerfed 3 times now... i counted (T.T) crying face


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SURROUNDSOUND

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Senior Member

07-08-2011

Q of course, very easy to harass while killing creeps at the same time.


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Kharel

Senior Member

07-08-2011

I'm one of those weirdos that levels E first. E, Q, E, W, R>E>Q>W.

The zoning potential is tremendous. I can't tell you how many Jarvans who go for Q that I've outlaned and eventually murdered using Jarvan and leveling E. 9/0/21 masteries gets you 15% mpen anyway--why not use it?

E is dodgeable, yes--if you have boots, see the circle coming, have good reaction times, no lag, know precisely which direction to move instantly, Jarvan isn't in the bushes, doesn't know how to lead, and has the targeting skills of a blind, drunken gerbil. When laning with or against any sort of an AD carry or autoattacker, the extra attack speed and armor for both you and your laning partner are amazingly useful.

Another reason to use E is precisely because it's not a line attack: you can harass from behind your own creeps, or last-hit caster creeps, without pushing your lane. The AoE is also larger at the endpoint, so you can reliably hit all 3 caster creeps in a wave if you want to. Around level 5 (rank 3 E) you can hit the caster creeps with an E to take them low enough to one-shot all of them with an autoattack safely, or Q->E to kill all 3 at once if you're beside them.


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Xx420NoSc0p3xX

Senior Member

07-08-2011

Just get W if you can't decide.


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