AD or Armor pen quints

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XLBiceps

Senior Member

06-19-2011

ive noticed that in some guides ad quints are recommended and in others armor pen is, what is the general rule of thumb for when to use which or on what characters should you use each?


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Melvear

Senior Member

06-19-2011

I can't think of anyone but Akali where ArPen isn't better than attack damage. And Akali actually uses ad reds, not quints.


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Dontbuythisacc

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Senior Member

06-19-2011

Most champions have around 15 armor at lvl 1, so 31 armor pen is overkill early game. I would use AD on champs that play aggressively during laning like Cait or Ezreal.


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Melvear

Senior Member

06-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by rofl495 View Post
Most champions have around 15 armor at lvl 1, so 31 armor pen is overkill early game. I would use AD on champs that play aggressively during laning like Cait or Ezreal.
That's true, a lot of champs do not have 31 armor early game. However, the ArPen will be useful throughout the game, while the AD, in the amount you can get with runes, will lose its oomph.


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IS1b66c4666c18fc1e92277

Junior Member

06-20-2011

However if u want to kill tankier enemies and build Last Whisper, then your ArPen effectiveness will be reduced by 50%.

Knowing this you will have to decide: will i focus only squishy champs? or all my enemies? Is my physical damage output enough in early/mid game so the ArPen are worth (all champs with an average of 50 armor)?

remember also that some champs grow better with critical chance, attack speed, move speed, critical dmg, etc.


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Ayestes

Senior Member

06-20-2011

Generally:

Passive AD Bonus? AD Marks / AD Quints
- Akali? Go look at a guide...
Strong Physical Skills? ArmPen Marks / ArmPen Quints
Auto Attack Harass?
- Strong Early Game? ArmPen / AD Quints
- Strong Late Game? ArmPen / ArmPen Quints

Generally you will use Penetration in your Marks, and your choice in Quints. Hp/5 and HP are also wonderful choices for Quints in many cases instead of offensive ones to make your laning phase go well. However if you looking at purely offensive choices, then I'd look to the above.


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TL Frolo

Senior Member

06-20-2011

Arpen is better in general but some champions that have really high AD scaling on abilities early on prefer the AD runes
like cait or maybe lee sin


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Tha Dynamite

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Senior Member

06-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by rofl495 View Post
Most champions have around 15 armor at lvl 1, so 31 armor pen is overkill early game. I would use AD on champs that play aggressively during laning like Cait or Ezreal.
Actually, you'll do more damage than you would if the player has negative resistance. So if someone has -15 armor after resistance, you'll do about 10% more damage.
So in no way is it considered overkill.


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RealPandemonium

Senior Member

06-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by knister View Post
However if u want to kill tankier enemies and build Last Whisper, then your ArPen effectiveness will be reduced by 50%.
That's a fallacy because when you buy last whisper you're still getting way more armpen than you would have had without it. Having flat armpen "decreases" the value of last whisper because you reduce the amount of armor it pierces but you are still piercing much more armor overall than if you didn't have last whisper. Not to mention that your claim of "50%" effectiveness" is completely made up.


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Ayestes

Senior Member

06-20-2011

Just to clarify, physical damage is calculated as follows:

Stating Armor
- Subtract Armor Reduction, can go negative
- Subtract Armor Penetration, caps at 0 Armor
- Multiply Flat Armor Penetration, value * (1-x%)
- Final Value is X/(100+X) in physical mitigation

It's important to note, that with armor penetration items, you cannot go into the negatives. That's why ArmPen Marks w/ AD Quints will tend to have superior auto attack damage at level one when you use a hero with 50 starting damage. Given a few levels, targets having armor runes, or higher starting damages the ArmPen Quints will end up being superior a lot quicker. A Last Whisper is useful as long as your target is stacking any armor items.


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