[In development]Testing and Analysis of AP Yi

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TheTruhan

Senior Member

04-02-2010

This post was originally made in a different thread, but I wanted to create a new thread to re-live the idea of AP Yi.

Anyway, I have tried AP Yi in 3 normal games, won 2 and lost 1. All 3 games I was accompanied with 2-3 premade friends.

1st game: No idea what their levels were (lost, score is 16/7/8)

2nd game: Lolololololol....to the infinity, 1 lvl 30 4 rest are 15-20, the 4 people of lvl 15-20 was definitely a premade (Won, score is 28/3/7)

3rd game: Everybody was lvl 30, though they had a fail Shaco which failed to do early lvl 1 golem. We didn't gank him, he just fails on his own. (Won, score is 16/6/9)

Runes

I wasn't really making a full AP Yi, but nonetheless it was Yi with AP. I made a specific rune page for this testing using the current runes I had. From the rune page I gained the following stats:
*+22 Armor pen. (From 5 slots of Marks and 3 slots of Quints.)
*+25 AP@Lvl18 (From 8 slots of Glyphs)
*+12 mana regen/5@Lvl18 ((From 7 slots of Seals)
*+0.81 mana regen/5 (Too lazy to buy the last rune for mana regen/5@Lvl18, from 2 slots of Seals)
*+3.7% crit chance (From 4 slots of Marks)
*+0.99 AP (Too lazy to buy the rest AP@Lvl18, from 1 slot of Glyphs)

Masteries

For the masteries, I used the 9/0/21 stats.

Offensive:
*Deadliness 3/3 (3% crit chance)
*Cripple 1/1 (Improved Exhaust)
*Sorcery 4/4 (3* cd reduc.)
*Archaic Knowledge 1/1 (15% MR reduction)

Defensive: None

Utility:
*Good Hands 1/3 (-3.33% dead time)
*Perseverance 3/3 (4% increase of health and mana regen)
*Awareness 4/4 (5% extra XP)
*Meditation 3/3 (1 mana regen/sec)
*Utility Mastery 2/2 (30% extra time with neutral buffs)
*Quickness 3/3 (+3% movement speed)
*Blink of an eye 1/1 (Flash cd reduce by 15 seconds)
*Intelligence 3/3 (6% cd reduc.)
*Presence of The Master 1/1 (15% cd reduc. for Summoner Spells)

Summoner Spells used are: Flash and Exhaust

Item build

I made a specific route to my item build, but I would just put the big picture build:
1. Nashoor's Tooth
2. Berserker's Greaves
3. Guinsoo's Rageblade
4. The Bloodthrister
5. Rylai's Scepter
6. Possibly amongst these items: Infinity's Edge, Spirit Visage, Lich Bane, Banshee's Veil

Now that is the big picture setup for the item build, in all 3 games I was able to get to at least to number 5 and in my way to number 6. No need to say, all 3 games was quite long. 1st game was 55+ minutes, 2nd game was 30-40 minutes (kinda forgot), 3rd game was 40+ minutes not sure of exact time.

Skill build

My skill build was kinda varied, but here are the main-stream skill build up to lvl 11:
Lvl 1-Alpha Strike
Lvl 2-Wuju Style
Lvl3-Alpha Strike
Lvl 4-Meditate (I take it even if I'm not harassed, explanations later on)
Lvl 5-Alpha Strike
Lvl 6-Ult
Lvl 7-Wuju Style
Lvl 8-Meditate
Lvl 9-Alpha Strike
lvl 10- Meditate/Wuju Style (depends on situation and needs)
Lvl 11-Ult

Pass Lvl 11 I had different skill build setups for each game, but in all those 3 games I maximize Alpha Strike the last, meaning Alpha Strike is Lvl 5 at Lvl 18.

Analysis of Result

Early game/Laning phase
As I have said in all my 3 games I was accompanied with 3-4 premade friends. In each game I also laned with one of my premade friends. Anyhow in the laning phase I always take the Faerie Charm (to make Stinger later on) and 2 health pots with 1 mana pot. The main point of the early game for me is to farm up as many gold as possible, while in the middle of it getting kills. Fortunately I was able to get 2 kills in all my 3 games at laning phase. Gold also came quite easily using Alpha Strike, and I didn't have mana problems because of my Masteries, Runes and the Mana Pot and Faerie Charm. 1 mana pot is really all you need. Sadly I did not faced a lane where there were a range character. In all my 3 games, all the enemy that laned with me was melee, aside from a Teemo (1st game, was not a problem) and Kayle+Cho'Gath (2nd game, Cho'Gath exchanged with somebody after I had 2 kills and 1 death) pair that kept trying to harass me. Alas, I found out that their harassment were futile and did not stop me from farming. Although they did managed to made me and my lane partner (Amumu) to tower hug. Even so, gold was not a problem. In the early game/laning phase, I must say an AP Yi has the advantage compared to a DPS Yi. You might not be able to have great auto-attack output compared to the DPS counterpart, but you can easily harass with Alha Strike and farm really well. Also, Meditate is useful too. Although Meditate uses up a lot of mana, I used it quite frequently especially against the Kayle+Cho'Gath pair. It proved to be quite a decent healing tho not much, but it kept me in lane just enough so that I levelled up and restored some health. Rinse and repeat. Only once I ran out of mana but my mana refilled quite fast.

Imo, AP Yi>DPS Yi in laning phase

Mid Game
Once the laning phase ends, I assume that it is already mid game for me. Well in the 2nd game I laned until I was lvl 11, neither Kayle+Cho'Gath retreated nor me and Amumu (both sides harassment was of no use). Now in my head, AP Yi's mid game starts at Lvl 6 and ends somewhere around Lvl 12-13. This is the most crucial stage. By Lvl 12-13 I always had my Guinsoo's Rageblade. By this time, I have around 110 AP from Rageblade, Nashoor's and Runes. During this time, as often as possible I tried to get the Lizard Buff. As because I don't have a slow yet, it gets frustrating to chase a hero about to be killed without a slow (I hate to rely on exhaust everytime to slow). Golem Buff is also great, but not so important compared to Lizard, though that cooldown reduc. from the buff is nice before I have my Nashoor's. The mana regen from Golem is not so important, my mana regen was actually fast enough to refill itself as because I don't keep spamming Alpha Strike because even with Nashoor's (34% cd reduc. with Masteries), Alpha Strike's cooldown is 11.48 seconds. Long enough for me to clear up a wave with a single Alpha and auto-attacks. Mid game is all about killing essentially, when there is no opportunity to kill I just clear up waves of minions in a lane and jungle. That aside, Killing a lone enemy using AP Yi is not so easy compared to using a DPS Yi. The damage output of AP Yi is a bit behind to a DPS Yi, in terms of 1vs1. DPS Yi just cleans up people faster. Though AP Yi brings more damage in teamfights to the whole team through Alpha Strike, just that when you do the 'auto-attack' ritual the damage lacks compared to a normal DPS Yi. An advantage is that after one team clash, you are most likely in critical health or low health, Meditate is there to heal up and with 110+ AP actually does a good amount (by Lvl 12-13 I usually have Lvl 4 Meditate). When Meditate is already Lvl 3(when I'm Lvl 8), it is strong enough to withstand a couple of blows in a team fight. It's however not strong enough to go up against 5 people or even 4, and even with Lvl 5 Meditate it can't withstand 5 people, maximum 4. While AP Yi benefits from Alpha spamming via Highlander refresh and has better survibaility, DPS Yi is better at pure onslaught by a tad bit.

Imo, AP Yi is as equal or less effective as DPS Yi in mid game.

Late Game
Late game starts from Lvl 13-18. This is the hard part for AP Yi. By Lvl 16-17, I would have my Bloodthrister. Even so, with a Bloodthirster my auto-attack lacks the 'oomph' you people usually see in normal DPS Yis. As time passes by, AP Yi gets weaker, it is very noticeable once it reach the 40+ minutes duration. Now in my 1st game I was forced to buy Banshee's as my 6th item. I also bought a second Guinsoo's Rageblade thinking that the passive would stack therefore I would gain 96 AP at 8 stacks. But no, that didn't happened and disappointed me, thus I had to resell it and buy a new item. This mistake led me to the incapability to push and thus gave time for the enemy team to prolong the game and retaliate causing a loss. AP Yi just can't bring that much damage to the table compared to DPS Yi. Although, AP Yi still can do damage, the effectiveness depeletes. When I got a BF sword for my 6th item intending to make an IE it proved to be quite a good damage source, but still can't be compared to normal DPS Yi. Even so, by this time Meditate heals me for 1400+ health over 5 seconds, so that means 280+ health/sec. This in truth makes an AP Yi, a great decoy in teamfights giving opportunity for your teammates to clean up the job. Again though, it won't be possible to sustain a 5 man damage, it caps off at a maximum of 4. Yi also acts as a multi-personal slow via Rylai's+Alpha, not sure though how much are the enemy slowed for as because Alpha is a one-click target spell but strikes multiple enemies. Other than this at Lvl 18, I had 205 AP (not counting bonus from Guinsoo's Rageblade passive). I was able to deal around 400+damage with Alpha Strike per target, this is assuming that no one had bought MR items, which means with a single Alpha Strike in a teamfight I was able to bring out 1600+ magic damage to the enemy team to 4 people each received 400+ damage. Combine that with Highlander refresh, I can deal a total combined maximum of 5600 damage via Alpha Strike spamming 4 times (that is if I have enough mana to do so which I doubt with my build).

Imo, seeing a in late game it's 95% of the time about teamfights, AP Yi is slightly above DPS Yi in terms of overall contribution. Though DPS Yi can end a game much better and faster than an AP Yi due to the sheer amount of damage and speed a DPS Yi can output against one single target.

Overall Conclusion
Overall conclusion, I think AP Yi (well not fully AP, more like hybrid) has potential. Though I can't be so sure of this yet as because I haven't tried it in a complete pub game (no premade friends).

Extra notes (This is also for further edits)
*Aside from the usual 'death sentence' stuns, AP Yi is also gimped by silences. Silence for AP Yi feels much worse then DPS Yi (at least for me), even though you can move and attack you feel like you can't do anything cause you can't Alpha and meditate

*I am around low-mid ELO, I constantly go up against mid ELO people sometimes low. Therefore this whole AP Yi thing might not work in the higher ELOs

*AP Yi is very dependent on early kills, it is important to get at least 2 kills in the laning phase and no more than 1 death. If AP Yi fails to meet this requirement, it becomes hard to progress with the game.

*Range characters will force you to tower hug, but will not stop you from farming

*Morgana is a tough lane competitor, especially those who are competent with their Dark Binding. Avoid Alpha Striking to her at early phase, unless you are certain you have good backup.

If anybody wants to enjoy the thrill of using Yi in a different and strange way, and wants to dwell deeper in the potential of Yi, feel free to add me in game and we can talk more there. It would be of great help if other people can test this too, especially those of higher ELOs.


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TheTruhan

Senior Member

04-02-2010

Oh no comment yet@_@


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mingoooo

Senior Member

04-02-2010

Only Alpha Strike (in terms of DPS) scales with AP (1:1). That won't ever out-weigh the DPS you would have done if you went DPS Yi


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Rupus

Member

04-02-2010

That build isn't an AP build, at best it's hybrid.

But yeah, building someone with AP just for one skill is completely pointless. If you had built more DPS, you would have been doing much better.

In short, doing well =/= Build is good


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TheTruhan

Senior Member

04-02-2010

@mingooo
Indeed I noticed that, I saw the huge difference specifically in late game. Mid game well not much of a difference. I did say though that I think AP Yi is slightly better to DPS Yi in overall contribution. I'm not seeing just based on the damage factor, but also as a whole character (survivability, whole team damage contribution etc etc). It is still up to you to like it or not tho, I'm not gonna force ya to like it. This is still in testing after all, and is not a perfect theory. Try it for yourself if ya want.

@Rupus
Yea this build ain't an AP build but least I'm trying to make use of AP in a character considered as many as pure physical. I'm simply trying to break the boundaries of logic in people's minds. Thx for the praise. If Youmu's Ghostblade is coming out, I'm considering to try it out.


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EasymodeX

Senior Member

04-02-2010

What currently exists within the "boundary of logic" is that 1 AP skill that barely scales means that AP is a ****ty build.

And that you can beat scrubs with any build under the sun.

Grats?


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mingoooo

Senior Member

04-02-2010

Boundary of logic? Just because people think Yi should only be played as DPS, doesn't mean you can go AP with him. Well you can, but DPS just shines way better than AP. People drive with their two hands. Why dont' you try to break the boundary of logic by driving with your feet on the driving wheel?


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TheTruhan

Senior Member

04-02-2010

Ok2, sure if you guys don't agree with the boundary of logic thing it's fine. All I'm trying to do is to open up a new way of playing Yi that's all. No need to go all rampage, why not try anyway there's no harm in it.
About the driving with my feet, yea maybe I'll do it if I'm bored enough, like I said no harm in it.


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mingoooo

Senior Member

04-02-2010

Never said there's any harm in trying out AP. You could really build AP/DPS on ANY hero. It's just that the most effective way to play certain heroes are set in terms of going DPS/AP. Yi happens to be the most effective by going DPS build. AP Yi is a gimmick/novelty at best.


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TheTruhan

Senior Member

04-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by mingoooo View Post
Never said there's any harm in trying out AP. You could really build AP/DPS on ANY hero. It's just that the most effective way to play certain heroes are set in terms of going DPS/AP. Yi happens to be the most effective by going DPS build. AP Yi is a gimmick/novelty at best.
True true, I must agree. We know currently that Yi does well with a DPS build. People assume that AP on Yi would as you say a novelty/gimmick, now I'm just a person that doesn't believe in such things as certainty and 100% therefore I'm trying this AP/DPS Yi strats. That's just why I'm trying to conduct this experiment to see how effective an AP/DPS Yi is. I'm simply conveying my experience with it really, sorry for my misconception on your post.


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