"K/D doesn't matter"

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SyNiKaL DrEaMz

Member

06-14-2011

what really matters is that you dont DIE...whoever can build right and fluxuate that gold in faster will win ( if u got great teamplay, which is always important ). If u cant hold a lane, jus try your best to get some creep kills by the turret, if ur lane finally get pushed some go farm jungle or help another lane, since u cant hold the lane...


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DuffTime

Senior Member

06-14-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyNiKaL DrEaMz View Post
what really matters is that you dont DIE...whoever can build right and fluxuate that gold in faster will win ( if u got great teamplay, which is always important ). If u cant hold a lane, jus try your best to get some creep kills by the turret, if ur lane finally get pushed some go farm jungle or help another lane, since u cant hold the lane...
During laning phase there is a lot of truth to this.

During team-fights, you can't say you just shouldn't die.

Sometimes, if your death merits a victory in team fights, you -should- die.


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Ryncwind

Senior Member

06-14-2011

Kills don't matter, deaths do.


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RobertZimmerman

Senior Member

06-15-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ONEmortal View Post
From good decisions well past the point of pressing Q W E R. Not from a high K/D ratio which is what you are trying to argue right now. Take your own advice.

Also, you are assuming so much right now with your second paragraph I will leave that one to itself. Everything you listed is what truly matters towards the end goal, not your K/D ratio. Good job. You got the right idea now. I'm glad I could help you see the truth.

EDIT: I just have to say this too. I think it's beyond hilarious that you take one sentence "One good team battle can end the entire game" and you automatically take this to be telling you that nothing else matters. Why even stop there? You might as well had just said that through that sentence all I'm trying to say is that from Level 1 and on we just have to keep butt rushing the Nexus until it falls. Think about what you're even saying before you post please. And in the future, read what someone told you and actually try to understand it before you jump to the conclusion that you gotta fire back when you're shooting nothing but blanks.
I did read what you were writing. I didn't agree with it. You seem to play off k/d like it means nothing...It's not the objective, but Baron/Dragon/CS/Items aren't either...why do they matter, yet kills/deaths don't?

What I was quoting you on was your very first line, saying I answered my own question, because I said it wasn't the objective of the game. So since it's not the objective, it means nothing, that was the point you were trying to prove, or at least that's how it came across. And by this logic, I applied it to some other important aspects of the game. I wasn't being serious btw, I think those things matter a great deal, but they're not the objective.

I'd rather have an 5-5, than an 0-5 because at least then I know my teammate will be somewhat useful (assuming same assists). By dying, you not only set yourself back, but you make your opponent that much stronger, which can be the difference in team fights. By getting kills, you do the same thing to your opponent. I'd rather have the enemy akali 5-5, than 5-0, wouldn't you? She's lost a good amount of time to farm while she's been dead, and she's also fed your teammate(s) 5 kills. As opposed to a 5-0 akali who's been feeding off your top lane, free to farm as much cs as possible.

This debate has gone on far too long...I have not changed my standpoint on this, don't think I ever will... I mean sure it doesn't mean much for some heroes (ie. shen, janna, etc..) but for the majority of heroes I'd like to have everyone on my team positive k/d, as opposed to negative k/d, wouldn't you? If the answer's yes, then there ya go. It means something


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Rebirththroughfl

Junior Member

06-15-2011

okay seriously? of course K/D matters, but its literally the least important thing in a game of LoL.

sure, the other team might have a 19-0 akali, but that doesnt matter if we group up, kill off the 4 other people, and kill their inhibs in a good push. Sure we might have a 19-0 caitlyn, but that doesnt matter if she rambos forwards, dies at baron, and loses us the game...

It doesnt matter if our entire team is 0-20 if we just finished pushing their last inhib and base towers.


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Omgwtfbbqkitten

Junior Member

06-16-2011

I agree with RobertZimmerman only in that this debate has gone on for far too long. With this post I intend to end the debate, though I realize that anyone who disagrees with me or is too lazy to read a thoroughly written post will flat-out ignore me.

Do kills and deaths matter? Of course they do! But your score at the end of a game can be quite misleading.

As I see it, one of the major components of LoL is resource management. While you can't just grind out a war of attrition and expect to win every game, accumulating a tangible resource advantage over your opponents goes a very long way towards winning you the game you're in.

So what are the resources in this game? There are two which affect the growth of your character in any given match:

1) Experience - The higher your level, the more skills you have to work with, making your character more versatile and efficient.
2) Gold - Items are absolutely essential for you to develop your character. Even a level 18 will get wrecked by standard minions 30:00 into a game if that character has no items.

Generally champions will hit level 18 well before they have bought so many items that more gold becomes more or less trivial. In any case, having more levels or items than your opponent makes you a dangerous foe to contend with.

This is where the kills are important. (Ignore, for the moment, issues of field presence and the need to push towers, which is the way to actually end the game.) Let's say you went mid against a Vladimir. I don't even care who you are playing - the important thing is that a lot of people are unhappy with Vlad right now and, like it or not, he is going to kill you 4 times in lane before you finally take him out.

So right now the score is 1/4/0 vs 4/1/0.
Obviously, the Vladimir is ahead, right? If some of your allies came to help gank, granting them assists, then the score might be closer to even for the teams overall.

Remember that killing sprees give bonus gold to the one who stops a champion's murderous rampage. With that extra gold, slaying Vladimir now might give you as much gold as 2 or more kills against a player who isn't on a spree.

Then there's the number of creeps killed to take into account. What if that Vladimir completely ignored last-hitting minions to harass you and make you sad in lane? Well, let's say by the time you killed him, you have a good 30 creeps over him. If each creep is worth 15 gold (and I know it doesn't work like that, so please just bear with me) then you have 450 gold over Vladimir just from minions. That's as much as a kill and an assist!

So now, in terms of gold earned, your record had might as well be 3 kills + 1 assist vs. his 4 kills. Granted, he will have the benefit of an experience advantage... until you kill him while he's out-leveling you, in which case you quickly close that gap as well.

So by the end of the game, if I am 4/12/7, but all 4 of my kills granted me 1000 extra gold from ending massive killing sprees, and my team took Dragon 4 more times than the enemy, and I out-farmed that Vladimir by 70 creeps, I'd say I did a fine job of keeping up in resources.

And!! If I made smart decisions during critical moments - such as team fights, pushes against towers, tussles over who gets the Baron buff, then I can safely conclude that I was in fact a credit to my team, and contributed to my victory, should we manage it.

In the end, even when the enemy has a massive resource advantage over you, one good ace can wind up allowing you to demolish your enemies' base and win you the game. But really, if I know that I contributed to my team in some capacity - even if I fed early - I don't care what my "Kill-to-Death Ratio" is once we're through.

For those that do care about their K/D ratio, they should probably consider a K/D/A ratio instead, since 2 assists is roughly worth 1 kill, and many kills are worth more than the little number will tell you.

There is far more to it than this, but I'm not even ranked yet in ladder and I sincerely wonder how much clout I can muster, having said as much as I have already.



TL;DR : Go back to the top of this post and read it until you make it back to this line.


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DuffTime

Senior Member

06-16-2011

You're on the money though. KDA does not matter, but effective resource gathering and play and also winning clutch team fights does matter.

I think the reasons this topic gets brought up so often is because people come to the forums and complain about their Elo, trying to justify it with positive KDA ratios in games, which is irrelevant to winning, only to gaining gold and setting other champs back.


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Lvl 8 Psyduck

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Senior Member

06-16-2011

i just won a game where we killed 30 and other team killed 41

pretty easy it was

only veigar fed brand but when we targeted brand we aced their team easily and pushed to win


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Omgwtfbbqkitten

Junior Member

06-16-2011

Similarly, I lost a game as Trundle where I was 29/7/16 by the end of the game. I was a beast early, but somehow couldn't quite 1v5 the entire team at their tower. ;p
We never pushed as a team, despite us/me murdering every champion who got close enough for me to bite even once.

The game dragged on for well over an hour, and eventually the opposing team had farmed enough items off of kills on minions and allied champions that they were able to take me down in team fights. I still wrecked anyone who came at me 1v1, since Trundle is generally very strong 1v1 anyway, but 5 of those 7 deaths came after the 45-minute mark, once my initially overwhelming resource advantage tapered off.

After you have 6 items, all of which cost 3k+ gold, the best you can do is spam elixers and oracles for wards, or sell items to counter-build items the enemy has built against you. After enough time, I was only as strong as everyone else in the game, and a few team fights gone wrong, we lost our nexus.

Am I proud of my insane K/D/A score in a real game? I would have been, had I won. Really, the fact that I somehow failed to win after absolutely dominating an entire 5-man team in terms of resources is rather humbling. And I can guarantee you that nobody on the opposing team had more kills than deaths; I made sure of that. Yet still they won.

Sure, I can blame my team for not being "as awesome as me" that game, but the fact of the matter is that I must have been doing something wrong to not win, given how downright omnipotent I was in the early-to-mid game stages.


TL;DR : Killing people is fun. Blowing up the enemy's nexus wins you the game. A bit of the former isn't necessary, but helps in getting to the latter. A game can end with 0 kills on both teams (though I'm sure this is rare).


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Justing

Junior Member

06-16-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffTime View Post
Not wise to call him ignorant after taking his words out of context.

You state K/D matters. He states K/D does not matter.

He's referring to score. Your kills and your deaths could be 2/5, and if you made the right choices, at the right times, and you caused the win, then clearly, your kills and deaths did not matter.

Does it matter that you caused their entire team to die? Yes.

Does it matter if you were the reason they all died, be it through damage, or initiation, CC, or whatever? Yes.

Does it matter if you got the kills? No.

That's the point people are trying to make. It does not matter if you get -any- kills, as long as you cause your team to win. Your team could get 0 kills the whole game, but as long as you break the nexus first, you won, and you did what you had to do.

To say he's being ignorant, taking his words out of context, while ironically you yourself are ignoring the entire point, is quite humorous.
This pretty much sums up this entire thread