Some thoughts on Shen

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DatWubWub

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Senior Member

03-25-2010

Shen doesnt dps he can do good enough damage though. Dorans Shield- Ninja Tabi-Phage-Leviathan-Frozen Mallet- Aegis of Legions. Leviathan is almost a must with him. At the end of this build if you do it right, you will have around 120 attack damage and 4.5k hp. Add in ki strike and ur hitting around 200ish maybe more attack damage with 4.5k hp. Shens a great tank if you use his ult right.


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Sarpati

Senior Member

03-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valechor View Post
If I meant it to be a guide I would probably have put [GUIDE] in the title. As it was, I called it: "some thoughts on Shen" THOUGHTS being the operative word, intending for it to be an open discussion into a possible dps build for Shen.
So?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valechor View Post
thanks for that. Really makes us new players feel welcome. Also encourages new players to write guides.
I never said you wrote a guide. I quoted your post and replied to it.


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Sarpati

Senior Member

03-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyjames View Post
I disagree, Shen isnt a tank.. Shen is a support. He has a fat HP pool. But he cant tank a 5v5. He can however Tank a 3v2 or a 2v2
Just because he's got a taunt. doesnt necessarily make him a tank. you need to be behind their lines to Initiate. and thats bad.. Positioning should never allow his to really mess up your 5v5 enemy.
I think Shen is a great hybrid tank / dps

while i wouldnt recomend Life steal to any thing in higher level play (too much executioners calling)
A starks is a fine item on him. I think even a Spirt Visage + Starks is great support. Get a Ageis of the legion and Merc treds. then go for Zeal and Infinity Edge, or something of that sort..

Basicly i just dont think hes a great tank. but could ROCK aura items
That's like saying Cho'gath isn't a tank. They both have their own disables, but Shen loses HP and the silence for a heal, mobility, 'block' ability and multi-purpose ulti. Maybe it's the people I've faced, but I had no problem tanking in team fights with him. The AoE taunt greatly reduces incoming damage for 2 seconds, if used right, and by then, any competent team has killed at least 1 of the opposition. Last game I won three 3v5 fights thanks to my AoE focused team quickly turning said fights into 3v3s or 3v2s.

[e] Sorry for the double post. Forgot I had just posted something else here.


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GENERAL NUTBAKED

Senior Member

03-25-2010

think about it. building attack damage on shen is alot like building attack damage on alistar.

AP compliments 3 of his abilities, tank builds compliment all of them. Every AD shen I have seen so far gets obliterated. leave melee damage to people like jax.


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dirkzy

Senior Member

03-25-2010

I wouldnt dare try to give tips or write a guide if I was below level 30.

Even though I do happen to be level 30, I dont bother writing guides because I have no groundbreaking info to share.


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Siky

Senior Member

03-25-2010

New players shouldn't be writing guides anyways. Guides are for people who have extensive knowledge, not a journal for writing down your thoughts and ideas of what you're trying and failing with. Is competition at level 10 strong enough to warrant good enough test subjects for figuring out proper builds? I say it's akin to playing against bots at that point. Are you good enough that you're playing as safe as you can be? Are your opponents killing you every time you make a mistake? Do they aggressively push their advantage if they have one or just dawdle around and let the game just drag on and on when it doesn't have to?

There's nothing wrong with trying a different style from the norm, nothing wrong with it unless you try to write a guide for a build you're not even done figuring out. This isn't a guide. This should definitely discourage you from writing guides, since what's the point of a guide if you still haven't figured the ins and outs of your item builds, let alone strategies and guidelines on how to play with your particular item build. It's great that you found success with it, but there is no standard to who you're playing at level 10 and if you're going to post in your own "guide thread". This is better off in the champion feedback section or general discussion. There is really nothing here that relates itself to Guides or Strategy other than stay away from people who are still too new to contribute.

Bash away.


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DO3fkfGBDq46u7RT

Junior Member

03-25-2010

Congratulations! With the ignorance displayed in this thread you managed to lure a EU player to the US forums for a single post.

This is the "Guides and Strategy" forum. If it were meant only for guides it would have been called the "Guides" forum. The OP clearly meant for this thread to be used for discussing possible playstyles for Shen. Shen may perform best when played as a tank, but that doesn't mean people are not allowed to try different tactics.
If you disagree, that's fine, nobody ever said you have to agree. Just don't tear people apart for thinking out of the box.


I would like to advise all of the haters to stop expecting every post with a champion's name in it to be a guide.


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SaulOrNothing

Senior Member

03-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valechor View Post
thanks for that. Really makes us new players feel welcome. Also encourages new players to write guides.

Edit: I note that I've been derated. Again, thank you. It's good to see that you want me to know that you disagree with trying to do something different, and also want to kick me in the teeth while doing it.

So now let me ask some questions so I can get some feedback rather than: "OMG NEVAH EVAH LEIK USE NON TANKING ITEMS ON THIS GUY"

Why does he have to be a tank? Why can't be he be a survival fighter, good for fighting in combination with another player and who can also do a significant amount of damage. You say he's built to be a tank, but he has a dash ability, which seems to be a skill shot taunt a bit like Blitzcranks but with shorter range. His passive gives him crit every 8 seconds, shortened when attacked by champions, which is more useful on a DPS than a tank..His vorpal blade gives a heal over time, not a heal per hit, so less useful as a tank and more as a support character, and then theres his ultimate, which allows him to shield himself and a friend and then teleports to them, again more useful in a support fighter than a tank.

If you want to disagree, please say why you disagree as well as helpful useful comments as to why your way is better.

Finally: don't be so bloody conservative, let people try stuff out and maybe help them with that. Like: I dont agree with this build, but if you wanted to do more damage, it has been proven that AP is more effective than lifesteal.
Let me clear this up for you:

1) You've been derated because malady + starks offer no significant increase in damage, and therefore no significant lifesteal against true dps champs.Stark's + Bloodthrister makes much more sense, and even then its still bad itemization on sheen as he needs survivabilty in the form of raw hp which is further accentuated by his passive.

2) "Why can't be he be a survival fighter, good for fighting in combination with another player and who can also do a significant amount of damage?"
-This is simple. Team fights are what wins summoners rift games. Once you get to a point where one fed character cannot win a match for a bad team by pushing a lane unchecked, team fights and coordination become the deciding factor of matches alongside jungle control ( neutral buffs + dragon). In a team fight shen's abilities lay out a certain set of tasks that need to be accomplished.
A) he wants to taunt as many of the other team as possible.
B) he wants to mark the main target with vorpal blade to turn them into a health pot for your team that you can attack.
C) depending on his hp he will then either want to run because he is dying or he will want to stay and beat on a squishy for a couple seconds to further support the team. He will rinse and repeat this as often as possible ulting to support a team mate if needed.
You see, shen is built to soak damage. One of his skills FORCES the opponents to attack him. If he is a squishy dps character he will not be able to taunt 3 or more opponents and do anything else other than run away hoping he gets out of the casters range before their taunt wears off (which with mercury treads... it wont be long). If a dps shen taunts and doesn't get out of caster range before the taunts wear off, then he will die. It would be like having your tristana rocket jump into a group of opponents in front of your alistar because she can slow them so ali can catch up to them. This would be a fancy way to comit suicide and likely cost your team the fight and even the match. Non tanks can initiate very well and survive, and that is why shen needs tank items... so he can do what his skill set is designed for.

3)"His passive gives him crit every 8 seconds, shortened when attacked by champions, which is more useful on a DPS than a tank.."
- again, perhaps at surface level this seems true, but it benifits a tank far more than a dps. First, if you stack hp, then you are getting bigger returns and therefore are doing more damage. Second, you have an aoe taunt which forces x amount of opponents to target you causing your passive to refresh fairly quickly allowing you to hit those bigger numbers more often. Lastly, with more hp you can take more damage which is more auto attacks which is more procs which is even more big numbrs from your passive. You see, + hp items coupled with his taunt skill allow him to dump respectable damage on a particular squishy that he marks with vorpal so he can heal and bubble himself to help mitigate damage as he is tanking the opposing team.

4) "and then theres his ultimate, which allows him to shield himself and a friend and then teleports to them, again more useful in a support fighter than a tank."
-this again seems okay at the surface, but think about it. If you are low health running for your life who would you rather show up to help you: your alistar or your corki? Chances are, you aren't in a condition to fight and need to keep running and having shen telport to you leaves him 1v however many they have which isn't the best odds as he isn't the best fighter even in 1 v 1s. If the shen was your tank, they could save your life, and aoe taunt your would be killers all the while popping ghost and having pleanty of health to run away on. I have saved chars from 1 v 3 ganks with my ult + taunt+ ghost,

Basically, shen is designed to be a suport tank. He plays like a support tank, and is most effective as a support tank. Using him dps idn't much better than trying a dps soraka... it just isn't as effective.


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Shurko

Senior Member

03-25-2010

Sarpati, do you just roll through forums being a d bag?


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Sarpati

Senior Member

03-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurko View Post
Sarpati, do you just roll through forums being a d bag?
Yes. Do you just roll through the forums incorrectly replying to posts?


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