What's all the fuss about Riot's MM system?

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Shealth

Senior Member

03-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Goods View Post
I feel the same way. Win your first 3 games and then its 'OMFG SMURF. ELO BOOSTED TO 1800'. So when Riot says 'lvl =/= skill' while that may be true, but 'lvl 30 = huge ****ing advantage over lvl 29 and below'.

I can't be expected to do well when lvl 30's have full t3 runes and full masteries. so wouldnt COMMON SENSE say that since theres an innate advantage when playing lower lvl people, is there SERIOUSLY no other non lvl 30's near my elo? like Riot is saying that out of their 'huge playerbase' (no numbers because thats a super business secret and will never be given out) there is LITERALLY 0 players near my level thats also near my elo? Seeing as there was what, 1 million downloads, and of all those people that downloaded the game, there isn't 9 other people near my level and my elo?

gimme a ****ing break. fix your ****ing MM to include summoner level incorperated in making matches.
Summoner level is included in MM, you get an ELO boost everytime you level up.


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The Goods

Senior Member

03-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhitemageofDOOM View Post
You have a better solution?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueSkill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shealth View Post
Summoner level is included in MM, you get an ELO boost everytime you level up.
Ok, but what does that have to do with being lvl 11 and gettting matched against ALL LVL 30'S. I have 11 tier 2 runes vs 30 tier 3 runes. i have 11 mastery points vs 30 mastery points.

INNATE ADVANTAGE.


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The Right Stuff

Member

03-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhitemageofDOOM View Post
You have a better solution?



Now that is not right, yeah.
I would say the best ranking system in a game I have played is Halo 2/Halo 3. I can't think of a time back when I was playing halo 3 that I just had blowout games one way or the other. The goal wasn't necessarily to try to get an average win loss of 50/50, but to eventually find your perfect level, and pair you against others at that exact skill as well. Some of the most satisfying games came from this system.

This could be possible by adding a separate level rank to LoL. So you might be summoner lvl 30, but your skill level is 1-50 or whatever. They can just make ranks instead of using other levels as well. I look forward to what Halo:Reach brings, and maybe Riot can get a few ideas from that.

My main issue though is just the huge disadvantage I am immediately at now in games. most runes end up giving you the benefit of a 700-800g item.


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WhitemageofDOOM

Senior Member

03-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Goods View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Right Stuff View Post
I would say the best ranking system in a game I have played is Halo 2/Halo 3.
*Head desk*
ok two things
1) Trueskill in reality just elo in a funny hat. A zero sum skill ranking system based on the same basic formula.
2) The trueskill system with halo measure "Individual skill" by kills and deaths, in other words it considers the dude sniping people off by there lonesome more "skilled" than the guy caring the flag for the win.
I shouldn't need to remotely explain how ****ing stupid that is.

Quote:
I can't think of a time back when I was playing halo 3 that I just had blowout games one way or the other.
LoL has a slippery slope. Halo does not.
Top tier games between the best players in the world are still a string of blow outs in LoL.

Blow out games in LoL have nothing to do with the matchmaker and everything to do with game mechanics.

Quote:
The goal wasn't necessarily to try to get an average win loss of 50/50, but to eventually find your perfect level, and pair you against others at that exact skill as well. Some of the most satisfying games came from this system.
*head desk*
That's what the existing system tries to do to the best of it's ability. Pitting you against others of equal skill to the best of it's ability means you end up with approximately a 50/50 win ratio thanks to basic mathematics.


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Tyson Azura

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Senior Member

03-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Right Stuff View Post
Hey guys, I am new I just started 3 days ago. I heard about this game through some DOTA friends, and decided to check it out. I won't lie, I was a very good DOTA player, and picked up this game very quickly. I just want to see why you guys have issues with this MM system. So far I feel this system rocks.

Let's check out some of the things that have happened so far.

1. I won my first two games and was playing all lvl 30's on my 3rd game. I was naturally wtfpwned with no runes/masteries/or any idea of what these nonfree characters could do.

2. 98% of my games since the 3rd one has been ALL lvl 30's. I am constantly at a disadvantage, and it just flat out is not fun.

SO. My new question is this. WHAT THE **** WAS RIOT THINKING MAKING THIS FAIL MM SYSTEM?
At the moment its only high levels who play match making much. 98% of new players use practice matches to learn abouth the other heroes and items till they hit level 10 or more.
my suggestion is to copy their example and not QQ because so many people in match making are better/have been plaing longer than you.


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Dlittlejohn

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-22-2010

Zileas has a thread on this. Post screenshots of your games (end results) with their levels and such, and she'll look into the game. This helps Riot to better their Elo system. Instead of complaining about it, try to help out please. Thanks


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The Right Stuff

Member

03-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyson Azura View Post
At the moment its only high levels who play match making much. 98% of new players use practice matches to learn abouth the other heroes and items till they hit level 10 or more.
my suggestion is to copy their example and not QQ because so many people in match making are better/have been plaing longer than you.
LOL. bro im 20-10, and am better than most people I play. I have no doubt I will well above 50/50 win loss when ive gotten 300+ games logged. I am pissed right now that I am at an immediate disadvantage from runes and masteries. I don't think its fair to my teammates either to have a lvl 12 and not another 30.


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McComb

Member

03-22-2010

Can't pubstomp 100% of the time = mm fail.


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The Right Stuff

Member

03-22-2010

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Originally Posted by Sickenjal View Post
Can't pubstomp 100% of the time = mm fail.
Quoted For Truth


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Necrax

Senior Member

03-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhitemageofDOOM View Post
Allow me to remind you what takes about 5 seconds worth of thought to realize.

90% of the player base is lvl30, if you weren't matched up with lvl30s you would have hour long queue times. Also there would be a much larger skill diffrentiol in those games since you want matchmaker to value something largely irrelevant(level) over something with huge gaps(skill).
A simple understanding of how an elo system works would also tell you that any lvl30s advantages are already compensated for in the elo system because if they win more from those advantages then there elo will go up, however while unnecessary riot included an elo boost for gaining a level anyways.
In other words if your playing against lvl30s your skill is compensating for the entirely minor difference in effectiveness from levels.



People can rejoin after disconnecting, and if you got any sort of bonus it would create circumstances where the correct choice for a player is to /leave.

Think before you type, we aren't engaging in a conversation where the speed of conversation means rational thought can't kick in.
your a human, your smart. so ACT LIKE IT.
you could adhere to your own advice as well.

a lot of players, including me, have addressed the fact that riot's mm fails miserably when partial premades are involved. chances are the OP suffered from this ignored disease. this has beend proven a hundred times. yet, riot keeps mocking the community by claiming it's working as intended or - even worse - want even more proof or "additional" data.

so i can't say 5vs5 premaking is fail or pure solo matchmaking is fail or matchmaking in general is fail but a whole ****ing lot of games involve partial premades and the majority of these games suck to the point of disbelief. this might not include top Elo and if you belong there (which you kinda claim) your point is even less relevant than it already was after questioning some stranger's intelligence because he's not your opinion.

i kinda understand you if you really are a top player because you don't have to deal with the average MM where the pool of players is seemingly endless. all your possible opponents are probably on your friendslist anyway then.

so i'll keep claiming that mm + partial premades = mega hard fail until i a) quit the game or b) riot starts to address this blatant flaw and i hope they don't ignore it because the few top players claim everything's fine.