Armor pen and armor penetration

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xrats

Senior Member

03-18-2010

Hello guys.I have some questions about armor pen and penetration(for everyone who knows).

1)As far as i know armor pen runes work vs towers.Which items work vs towers?(for armor pen or reduction)

brutalizer,divine sword(active),last whisper?

black cleaver?

2)Divine sword does 100 dmg every fourth attack.Does this dmg apply to towers also?I think its magic dmg.

3)Lets say i begin with the maximum flat armor pen from runes and masteries(i think its about 34?).If my enemy has 24 armor what happens?Do i lose the remaining 10 or is there such a thing like negative value of armor in the game?If there is that would mean bigger dmg for enemies with less armor.Does armor go below zero?

4)Is it worth the effort to go a full armor pen and reduction with a carry?I ve heard that its better to combine armor pen with critical for maximum dmg instead of armor reduction.For example,its better to go for last whisper and IE than last whisper and black cleaver.

Just some thoughts here.I would like hear any opinions.


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TL Phrost

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03-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by xrats View Post
Hello guys.I have some questions about armor pen and penetration(for everyone who knows).

1)As far as i know armor pen runes work vs towers.Which items work vs towers?(for armor pen or reduction)

brutalizer,divine sword(active),last whisper?

black cleaver?

2)Divine sword does 100 dmg every fourth attack.Does this dmg apply to towers also?I think its magic dmg.

3)Lets say i begin with the maximum flat armor pen from runes and masteries(i think its about 34?).If my enemy has 24 armor what happens?Do i lose the remaining 10 or is there such a thing like negative value of armor in the game?If there is that would mean bigger dmg for enemies with less armor.Does armor go below zero?

4)Is it worth the effort to go a full armor pen and reduction with a carry?I ve heard that its better to combine armor pen with critical for maximum dmg instead of armor reduction.For example,its better to go for last whisper and IE than last whisper and black cleaver.

Just some thoughts here.I would like hear any opinions.
1) raw armor pen (non percentage based) i believe works against towers. basically that means everything except last whisper and black cleaver (since thats a debuff not a stat)


2) no, on hit's don't work against towers usually (sheen is the exception)

3) they go into negative armor making them take more damage than you do

4) depends on the champion, they benefit from different things. I usually get madred's bloodrazor over both of those items as it helps farm faster but its not good on every champion


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Mokosha

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Senior Member

03-18-2010

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Originally Posted by Phr0st View Post
2) no, on hit's don't work against towers usually (sheen is the exception)
Probably because it's not an on-hit. Rather it appears to be an on-spell cast >.>


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Rydain

Senior Member

03-18-2010

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Originally Posted by Mokosha View Post
Probably because it's not an on-hit. Rather it appears to be an on-spell cast >.>
It's an autoattack modification, rather than an on-hit effect.


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CrazyCranium

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03-18-2010

1) Armor pen (with the exception of last whisper for balance reasons) works on towers, while reduction does not because you cannot apply a debuff to a tower.

2) As far as I know, SOTD bonus damage does not work on towers

3) armor pen cannot bring someone into negative armor, only reduction can. So any armor pen beyond the target's armor is wasted.

4) do NOT get both black cleaver and last whisper, armor reduction from black cleaver is applied before the % reduction from last whisper. Therefore last whisper will have less of an effect when the target has reduced armor from the cleaver stacks. Flat armor pen runes and brutalizer work well with last whisper since they are applied after the % reduction. Stark's favor works well with black cleaver for max armor reduction which means they take more damage from your teammates as well (and the attack speed helps apply stacks quickly). Black cleaver vs last whisper depends on enemy team composition, LW is better vs high armor tanks, while black cleaver is better vs squishies.