Why Void Staff Sucks 98.8% of the time

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Charmicarmicarmicat

Senior Member

03-12-2010

fail thread..


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Akyio

Senior Member

03-13-2010

I love void staff and i find it good, it also gives you AP, not only magic penetration, with sorc shoes and mastery, you get -20 + -55% magic penetration,
I really see a huge difference in my damage when i play any caster before void staff and after void staff, especially on characters who have merc threads or some other magic res. items


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Xyirx

Senior Member

03-13-2010

The thing is if your team has more than 2 strong caster, it's always nice to have Abyssal Scepter on you because it's an aura. Even though it has less effectiveness when enemies have a lot of MR, it always worth it, especially when your casters already have Void Staffs.


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Arkteruss

Senior Member

03-13-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by EasymodeX View Post
Your analysis is fundamentally flawed because of 3 points:

1. In games where your spell damage matters and it is your primarily damage output, and you are successful enough that this discussion is relevant, opponents will have approximately 100 MR (Merc, Banshee, base MR).

2. Mag Pen augments the entire damage of your spell -- both the base damage, and the AP bonus damage. You do not appear to have accounted for the base damage in your analysis, which comprises the majority of the spell damage, marginalizing the benefits of AP to a certain extent.

3. AP bonuses in terms of alternative cost is additionally reduced due to most spells in various situations having a <1.0 AP ratio.

So, as an example,

Assumptions: Base spell damage of 250. AP ratio of 0.8. Target with an MR of ~80. Base AP of 100. 28.5 flat magic pen (Sorc boots + MPen Marks). 15% magic pen (mastery).

Base damage: 330 minus whatever 39.5 MR does.

+Void staff: 386 minus whatever 7.5 MR does.

+70 AP + 33.5 AP: 413 minus whatever 39.5 MR does.


I'm guessing that reducing the enemy MR from 40 to 8 will make a much larger difference than increasing your base spell damage from 386 to 413, tbh.
Thought I'd go ahead and plug in some numbers so this makes a little more sense.

By the way: Damage Reduction = Total Armor / (100 + Total Armor). For example, a champion with 150 points of armor would receive 60% reduced damage from physical attacks.

MR scales the same way armor does. So! Using your example:

80 MR would set reduction at 44% With your pen factored to bring MR down to 39.5, that makes it 28%. So 330 is mitigated to 238.

Void staff brings reduction from 28% to 6% so 330 is mitigated to 311.

Next example, 413 damage versus 28% reduction brings it down to 298.

So the magic pen does more damage, not a whole lot, but more. One of the things you have to consider when deciding to go with pen or AP is, naturally, your other skills...like if you had a heal, for example, I'd say go with a bit more AP since pen doesn't let you heal more. Those cases are usually somewhat rare, though, since a majority of your mages are just that; mages, and you don't have to worry about anything aside from pumping your damage.


So, whats better to lead off with during your lane phase? AP or Pen? We'll go with saying that the spell does 80 damage, seems to be a common level 1 nuke damage, and has a ratio of .7 (basically Kassadins nullsphere).

With full pen runes, you're getting 19 magic pen, plus 15% from the mastery versus 30 MR early on.

30 MR is a 23% damage reduction, taken down to 8% from runes/masteries. So your 80 damage nuke ends up doing 74.

Now we go with full AP page (flat), and the 15% mastery. Full page gives you 31 extra ability power, making your nuke go from 80 damage to 101, or 81 damage after mitigation.


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Schn

Senior Member

03-13-2010

Good thing is you can use marks for pen and spare glyphs that aren't -cd for AP and end up with the best of both worlds.

Since AP and pen stack multiplicatively, I would hazard this would do even more damage than a pure of either.


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AutoSponge

Senior Member

03-13-2010

For those doubting me, I suggest you do your own experiments since you can't do math.

Set up your runes and masteries the way you normally do. Get sorc shoes, etc. Then buy a void staff and hit your spells. Sell the staff and buy the same amount of AP that the void staff costs. If your spells have .8 or better, I think you'll realize void staff is a waste of money.

If you have no other pen, (incl. runes or masteries), void is good. Otherwise (98.8% of the time) it sucks.


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Ferg

Senior Member

03-13-2010

Wouldn't getting Sorc shoes stack the results in your favour? Why not just get void staff and a comparable cost pure AP item and then test that? After all, with both stacked you're just showing that void staff is overkill not that it doesn't have merit of its own.

After all if you could get merc treds or boots 3 instead of sorc shoes that could significantly increase your survivability making void staff quite viable.


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Aramathia

Member

03-13-2010

Why void staff > Abyssal Scepter. 99 times out of 100, by the time you are in range for abyssal scepter to be effective, you are dead, unless you're playing a champ that is a high hp based champion, i.e. Taric or Kayle, etc. The guys that are usually your biggest problems are also the ones that have 150+ magic resist. 20 points is not going to make a big difference on them. 40% of their resist is going to make a big difference though. Numbers? 150 - 20 = 130. 150 - 40% = 90, since 40% of 150 is 60.


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Frostsaber King

Junior Member

12-11-2010

Siky is a dumbass!


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Siky

Senior Member

12-11-2010

Thanks for posting in a thread that was last dated March 13th, 2010. We obviously haven't gotten any patches since then.


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