[Champion Suggestion] Nemhain the Alpha Prioress

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Katsuni

Senior Member

06-19-2011

Gawd feel so awful this morning, can barely think XD

Anyways, thanks for the review samus, some useful information there, and made me rethink it, same with nick...

Actually, I think I may have a solution of sorts, to many of these issues.

First, I do want her to heal considerably while fighting high health targets, but I think I can do some tweaking here... change the passive bloodied effect to a flat 20% reduction to armour/mr, and heals only on initial hit, and only refreshes if yeu hit a different target, which would encourage fighting things like the golem or lizard early, because then yeu'd be encouraged to actually use those little minions they have and swap back and forth.

The next issue, would be the problem with % max life costs... I think I can fix that too, having it as maximum health isn't working, because once she's low on life, she's hurting herself more than anyone else due to her resistance to damage at low life... instead, I really want her to be encouraged to sit at low life, which this is pretty much the anti-thesis of. Soooo, instead make all the abilities to be % CURRENT life, which would get her to that 50% or less zone I want her in more readily, but wouldn't harm her as much once in that spot, and encourages her staying there.

Toss in that healing only occurs when hitting a new target, and this should actively encourage her to be mixing it up in a team fight more readily, while not making her so strong 1v1.

I *MAY* consider lowering the effect of the passive on her ultimate down to 50% from 65%, as that is admittedly a bit high. I don't think I'd lower it that much past that point though, otherwise it wouldn't even be as effective as poppy's passive of all things, and if a passive is stronger than an ultimate at 16, this kinda bothers me, especially when that champion can already give herself armour and invincibility.

Finally... the ultimate's active. Yeu are right, it is kinda boring. It was intended moreso to make use of the bonus attack damage, and to weaken enemies to set them up for a kill. By switching the reduced armour/mr over to her passive instead, however, this fixes the high values needed to make an ultimate feel... ultimate, and also leaves open the opportunity to mix and match the previous one with the current one a bit.

I'm thinking... change it to a flat base damage, but if the enemies are bloodied, then it deals an additional bonus % of her AD based on the number of dead allies. So if she's the last one alive on her team, she might get +50% bonus AD for each ally that's dead, so instead of just a 125/175/225ish physical nuke... (which may steal health, as I do want her to be healing considerably more in group fights), it would have 0 scaling by default, so no bonus from AP or AD. But if allies are dead nearby, then it'd go to 30/40/50% bonus AD for each, so 4 dead allies = 2.0AD scaling, making her hit far, far harder if the enemies try to leave her for last, instead of just killing her (yeu need to encourage them to target the tank first, in some method other than a taunt =3 ), then yeu pay dearly for it. Perhaps make it also the life steal in that AD... so maybe 225 damage but 4 allies dead means she drains 50% of her AD per dead ally, so that if yeu kill allies first, she gets very difficult to kill and does way more damage, but if yeu kill her first, then her healing doesn't even come into play.

I really want her to be designed in such a way that if a team fight goes that the enemy team is all at like 20% health, but her allies are all dead, because people just couldn't focus fire, that she is ideal for mopping up because they "DON'T FOCUS THE TANK GUYS" spammed all game, and will pay for it. I want her to tank well, but I want that tanking to come from encouraging enemies indirectly to attack her, through stacks (her matronage), and through becoming more dangerous when allies are dead. Ideally, she should be encouraged to be at less than 50% health, constantly attacking different targets in battle, and should be the first target to kill, despite being difficult to kill.

Lemme know if yeu like the idea on those changes, as it may be capable of making her more interesting to play as =3




EDIT: OOPS! Almost forgot!

The reason why she has cooldowns in the way she does is for a very specific reason. I don't want her to be able to spam a single target over and over with the same attacks. Instead, it's supposed to be breaking up the whole "AoE interrupt" idea into manageable chunks that the player can choose when to use each one. Using the same ability 5 times in a row on the same person would not be fair.

Instead, the way it's set up, by temporarily making enemies immune, means she can spam the same ability over and over if she wants... but only on separate targets. The high bloodthirst cost is set up so that she has to actually attack targets in melee as well to afford to use her abilities. Energy "tries" to make it so that yeu can spam an ability but not so often, but kinda fails in doing so since it regenerates so fast and the abilities still have considerable cooldowns; this newer system allows her to spam any ability she wants, so long as she's A: in combat, B: it's against different targets. I want to bypass that thing where a tank is forced to sit by and just watch sadly while an ally gets attacked by shaco, just after they knocked master yi away, and have nothing left with which to prevent it. Instead, she should be at her strongest, not when fighting lots of enemies coming in all at once like a traditional AoE (think Malphite), but rather at her strongest when enemies stagger their attacks off, or only send 1-3 people to attack a target.

Making the cooldown changes yeu suggested, would kinda kill the whole purpose of the champion, sorries =3



The other thing, was the range on her Q charge is like that more so that she can get into range of casters that hang in the back, and yeu'll find almost all charges (other than shen's really) go a similar distance, as they're intended to be in range of ashe or anivia quickly, who would otherwise just back off. The shorter range on the allied one is intentional, as the concept is to punish her for going too far out of range to attack, and not defending as well. She needs to keep close to allies to keep them safe from melee, not get too blinded by enemy casters and ignoring the melee, which can be a constant problem with bruisers.

Everything's actually very carefully designed to serve a specific purpose, usually several, and to encourage a specific type of highly mobile supportive game play =3

However, being so specific at times sometimes takes a few attempts to get it right, so she's likely not finished yet, though I do think she's done most major revisions at this point, and will be more so tweaks to get her abilities to pull off their desired role instead, by more specifically strengthening the game play aspect I want each to.

Anyways, sorries, meant to put this in earlier, but as I said, brain is dead ;_;


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Katsuni

Senior Member

06-20-2011

Another substantial rework has been done, though not nearly as large as the previous one. No new abilities have been added and none have been removed, though the way some of them work, namely her passive and her ultimate, as well as her ability costs, have been adjusted to more accurately make her fit the role I want her to fill.


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Samus93

Senior Member

06-20-2011

Hey again, unlike most players on this forum you don't mind if i keep trying to bring my point across (you actually seem to like debating) and so i've had a look at your changes and i still have a few things to say:

Firstly, the new passive is much better than the old one, you've rationalised it quite well. the only problem is that its still quite powerful - not as bad as before, but still very powerful. You see, the flat 9% straight up is already too much, as thats a huge chunk of health in one melee hit. I realise it can only happen once every 6 seconds per person, but i would still recommend dropping it to about 6%, and then the continuing on hit effects should be lowered to 2%. Not huge cahnges, but otherwise i think you're gonna be too powerful still. even with those changes i still think its powerful ..... but yes the new passive is good, and i quite like the new bloodied effect

OK the changes you made on Q and E are ok i think, the idea of taking %current health instead of total works much better i think. However you should add a minimum cost for each one, maybe 0.5% of total health? Thats a tiny amount, but that means that if you're below 10% health you cant just spam abilities without worrying about costs. Oh and if you're not gonna have %health scaling on W, then you need to give it bloodthirst cost (much lower than offensive abilities) - actually i'm gonna suggest an idea that is not all that fantastic but i reckon adds more order to the champ as a whole. Q and E cost 25 bloodthirst, making them more likely to be used before being fully drained. W costs 15 and Ult still costs 35, making the total cost for all 4 abilities ... 100 so using all 4 abilities without attacking once will drain all of your bloodthirst. But ye, just an idea. You do need a cost for W though

And c/d's .... i know i went on for a little before about it, but you definitely need c/d's, at least on E. After spending so much time writing your Creation Tips thread, how can you not see it as a problem? "Making fun abilities for both sides" .... well beign able to individually knock back every enemy player in any direction you want (different direction if you want to split them up, or same if you want to utilize a nunu ult or something) is so not fun for the enemy. And the buff only has a 6 second timer, so give it a few seconds and then you can do the same thing again ...... please dude, add a 6 second c/d onto this ability on top of the 'buff' you already have (and i think you should change that to 10 seconds). I still think that is unfair, but well i doubt you're going to make a more drastic change so that'll have to do. and maybe a 3 second one for Q and W? everything else seems fine with the abilities i think ...

Oh and your Ultimate ... dude i STILL dont understand the passive properly, can you reword it? like does it activate with the ability? if so does it transfer liek a buff to the enemy or does it just stick around Nemhain until the ability ends. Or is it active all the time? I'm just a little confusedd by parts of it (mainly when does which part activate and so on). The idea behind it is great though, so kudos for that. And ye, thats basically everything i felt needed a change. Look forward to what you have to say


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Katsuni

Senior Member

06-21-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samus93 View Post
Hey again, unlike most players on this forum you don't mind if i keep trying to bring my point across (you actually seem to like debating) and so i've had a look at your changes and i still have a few things to say:
Yeah, it's a personal thing... not sure if it's a flaw or not, but debating for sport is fun XD

Regardless, I do enjoy trying to explain stuff out, and find that the easiest way to learn something, is to discuss it in depth. If yeu play devil's advocate, and the other person can't argue their own point convincingly, against something yeu know to be false, it means yeu can use that to teach them the flaws of their reasoning XD

Of course, it can also mean that sometimes yeu're wrong too, and just discussing it until all points are covered, can bring to light things that wouldn't have shown up otherwise.

Anyways, discussing ideas can either give inspiration for new ones, or sometimes make a critic realize they were wrong, or occasionally show yeu that yeu weren't thinking of it in quite the right way either, since it's not humanly possible to see everything from all angles, so getting a second opinion sometimes helps!



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Firstly, the new passive is much better than the old one, you've rationalised it quite well. the only problem is that its still quite powerful - not as bad as before, but still very powerful. You see, the flat 9% straight up is already too much, as thats a huge chunk of health in one melee hit. I realise it can only happen once every 6 seconds per person, but i would still recommend dropping it to about 6%, and then the continuing on hit effects should be lowered to 2%. Not huge cahnges, but otherwise i think you're gonna be too powerful still. even with those changes i still think its powerful ..... but yes the new passive is good, and i quite like the new bloodied effect
Mmm it was going to be 12% and 4%, but I already lowered it once. Keep in mind, also, that it's magic damage, whereas Jarvan's is 10% for the same 6 second cooldown... I suppose I should lower it a bit though, since it can reapply after. 6% seems too low to really matter, especially as magic damage which can be resisted, so perhaps a minor nerf down to 7.5 and 2.5 would be a little more fitting. This would mean after 2 hits it's just as useful as jarvan's =3



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OK the changes you made on Q and E are ok i think, the idea of taking %current health instead of total works much better i think. However you should add a minimum cost for each one, maybe 0.5% of total health? Thats a tiny amount, but that means that if you're below 10% health you cant just spam abilities without worrying about costs.
Mmm the biggest thing here is that she's supposed to really be fighting at low health anyway, and I kinda want her spammy when low XD I dunno, I'll think about it, just don't want it too silly, and anything below 1% would be negligible to the point of why even add it.

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Oh and if you're not gonna have %health scaling on W, then you need to give it bloodthirst cost (much lower than offensive abilities)
The issue here, is actually that yeu're already taking damage or some negative spell effect as it is. It's not like a shield as such that prevents damage... the spell or attack still does its' full effect, it just hits Nemhain instead. The "cost" of the spell, is however much damage she takes from it instead, is whot I realized.

Thing is that if she takes a hit for 600 damage, it doesn't need a cost XD


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actually i'm gonna suggest an idea that is not all that fantastic but i reckon adds more order to the champ as a whole. Q and E cost 25 bloodthirst, making them more likely to be used before being fully drained. W costs 15 and Ult still costs 35, making the total cost for all 4 abilities ... 100 so using all 4 abilities without attacking once will drain all of your bloodthirst. But ye, just an idea. You do need a cost for W though
I suppose 15 would be fair however, though I am a tiny bit concerned about her using so little on those ones. Maybe 30/10/30/35 would work better.

It would correct the issues, and 10 isn't so little as to be unbalanced, and keeps her from mindlessly spamming her entire team without overdoing it, and without often feeling like she can't protect allies due to nothing to use. I suppose this would work well enough.



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And c/d's .... i know i went on for a little before about it, but you definitely need c/d's, at least on E. After spending so much time writing your Creation Tips thread, how can you not see it as a problem? "Making fun abilities for both sides" .... well beign able to individually knock back every enemy player in any direction you want (different direction if you want to split them up, or same if you want to utilize a nunu ult or something) is so not fun for the enemy.
Hrm, issue here is the cooldowns are supposed to be elsewhere, and it's not really the same as an AoE knockback, because it takes far more time to use over and over, and costs significantly more. She'd only be able to use it 2-3 times in a row, assuming nothing else, and it'd always have to be a different target. However, increasing the buff duration, I can see that being increased a significant amount, perhaps even doubled. She's SUPPOSED to be able to slap two melee away from a ranged in rapid succession if she so needs to do so, as too often a tank will feel helpless to defend an ally. This won't necessarily save that ally, since even with matronage and decimation, baddies can simply charge in instead. The trick on gameplay here (which I never mentioned, kinda intentionally as I want players to learn this for themselves =3 ) is to knock the baddies away, sheild her target, and feral charge someone else, so that if someone like xin tried to just dash back in, he'd end up dashing the wrong way. It'd be very tricky to pull that off, especially with a 1.0 second cooldown between each cast due to her global cooldown to keep her from being OP and spamming like 15 abilities instantly.

So I still really don't want a cooldown on the E... but increasing its' individual target cooldown significantly, that can be arranged so that it doesn't feel like people are constantly being bashed all over the place.



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And the buff only has a 6 second timer, so give it a few seconds and then you can do the same thing again ...... please dude, add a 6 second c/d onto this ability on top of the 'buff' you already have (and i think you should change that to 10 seconds). I still think that is unfair, but well i doubt you're going to make a more drastic change so that'll have to do. and maybe a 3 second one for Q and W? everything else seems fine with the abilities i think ...
I might actually increase it to 12 or 15, the more I think about it, and the more yeu point it out, it really is a pretty potent ability for a non-ultimate, and 6 seconds is kinda silly. Honestly I'm not sure how I've overlooked that part for so long, but easy to fix now =3



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Oh and your Ultimate ... dude i STILL dont understand the passive properly, can you reword it? like does it activate with the ability? if so does it transfer liek a buff to the enemy or does it just stick around Nemhain until the ability ends. Or is it active all the time? I'm just a little confusedd by parts of it (mainly when does which part activate and so on). The idea behind it is great though, so kudos for that. And ye, thats basically everything i felt needed a change. Look forward to what you have to say
I shall definately reword it so it's more obvious XD

But yeah, the changes seem to be minor balance tweaks now, which are difficult to properly theorycraft without play testing.

As for the ultimate, so yeu don't have to go back and double check, it essentially is just the attack speed and damage reduction are a permanent passive based on her current health, similar to tryndamere or olaf.

The flat damage is on activation.

The damage bonus and life steal is only effected on activation IF the enemy happens to be bloodied at the time.

I'll go clean these minor things up then, and should be set =3


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Samus93

Senior Member

06-21-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
Yeah, it's a personal thing... not sure if it's a flaw or not, but debating for sport is fun XD

....... But yeah, the changes seem to be minor balance tweaks now, which are difficult to properly theorycraft without play testing.
Nah man, i actually dont mind it that much myself, and well its a much better system then the post'n'leave thing most people do (including myself sometimes). And you're right, its mainly just balancing and stuff now, but when i first saw this champ that was really the only issue anyway - everything else is pretty much perfect.

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Mmm it was going to be 12% and 4%, but I already lowered it once. Keep in mind, also, that it's magic damage, whereas Jarvan's is 10% for the same 6 second cooldown... I suppose I should lower it a bit though, since it can reapply after. 6% seems too low to really matter, especially as magic damage which can be resisted, so perhaps a minor nerf down to 7.5 and 2.5 would be a little more fitting. This would mean after 2 hits it's just as useful as jarvan's =3
Works for me, i guess the passive/bloodied effect is this champs selling point anyway so its better to make it slightly OP then UP. But i don't actually think it is OP anymore, kinda hard to see without proper testing. Really the only issue is that AS is essential on her, but honestly armour is essential on Rammus and AP is essential on Annie so who really cares =P so ye Riot come chuck this guy in the game just so we can find out!

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Mmm the biggest thing here is that she's supposed to really be fighting at low health anyway, and I kinda want her spammy when low XD I dunno, I'll think about it, just don't want it too silly, and anything below 1% would be negligible to the point of why even add it.
Ye and thats fair enough, but i'd rather have the limit as it stops things from getting more silly (if you're on like 8% or something). And the only reason i have an issue with it is cuz it means that the lower on health you are: the less damage you take, the more AS you have and the less abilities cost .... but the fact that you have to be on low health to get these benefits balance it i guess so ye do what you want here man, just a suggestion that randomly popped into my head, its not really vital or interesting

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The issue here, is actually that yeu're already taking damage or some negative spell effect as it is. It's not like a shield as such that prevents damage... the spell or attack still does its' full effect, it just hits Nemhain instead. The "cost" of the spell, is however much damage she takes from it instead, is whot I realized.
Thing is that if she takes a hit for 600 damage, it doesn't need a cost XD

I suppose 15 would be fair however, though I am a tiny bit concerned about her using so little on those ones. Maybe 30/10/30/35 would work better.
It would correct the issues, and 10 isn't so little as to be unbalanced, and keeps her from mindlessly spamming her entire team without overdoing it, and without often feeling like she can't protect allies due to nothing to use. I suppose this would work well enough.
Ye i hadnt actually considered that - see i was visualising using this ability more for its utility then for its support, but now you've said that ... have you considered reducing the damage that you can take by 25% or something? Cuzi just saw you (having just returned from the fountain) seeing two of your allies about to being ulted by Karth, and so you go over and tag both and take the fallout great ability, gets better the more i learn about it. But ye, maybe reduce the damage a bit, just so people will actually want to use it. Oh and yes 30/10/30/35 would definitely work, so go for it

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Hrm, issue here is the cooldowns are supposed to be elsewhere, and it's not really the same as an AoE knockback, because it takes far more time to use over and over, and costs significantly more. She'd only be able to use it 2-3 times in a row, assuming nothing else, and it'd always have to be a different target. However, increasing the buff duration, I can see that being increased a significant amount, perhaps even doubled. She's SUPPOSED to be able to slap two melee away from a ranged in rapid succession if she so needs to do so, as too often a tank will feel helpless to defend an ally. This won't necessarily save that ally, since even with matronage and decimation, baddies can simply charge in instead. The trick on gameplay here (which I never mentioned, kinda intentionally as I want players to learn this for themselves =3 ) is to knock the baddies away, sheild her target, and feral charge someone else, so that if someone like xin tried to just dash back in, he'd end up dashing the wrong way. It'd be very tricky to pull that off, especially with a 1.0 second cooldown between each cast due to her global cooldown to keep her from being OP and spamming like 15 abilities instantly.
So I still really don't want a cooldown on the E... but increasing its' individual target cooldown significantly, that can be arranged so that it doesn't feel like people are constantly being bashed all over the place.

I might actually increase it to 12 or 15, the more I think about it, and the more yeu point it out, it really is a pretty potent ability for a non-ultimate, and 6 seconds is kinda silly. Honestly I'm not sure how I've overlooked that part for so long, but easy to fix now =3
honestly, all that ^^ is fine, i wanted E to not be able to be misused over and over again, and so the new buff should do. I also didnt realise you had a 1 second global cooldown after every cast ... im sure you can see why i thought you're abilities were OP now =P so: i;d go for 12 i think, that seems like a good number. and i'm just wondering if you think a one second silence after every ability may be a bit too .... annoying? not sure if thats the right word but ye ... you know what i mean

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I shall definately reword it so it's more obvious XD

As for the ultimate, so yeu don't have to go back and double check, it essentially is just the attack speed and damage reduction are a permanent passive based on her current health, similar to tryndamere or olaf.
The flat damage is on activation.
The damage bonus and life steal is only effected on activation IF the enemy happens to be bloodied at the time.
I'll go clean these minor things up then, and should be set =3
Thx man for that, I understand it now i can see how all the passive effects would tie in together, and i'm assuming the ally wounded/dead thing is a situational-activation like deal similar to the bonus damage and life steal? apart from that, everything is great. like i said, i dont really have many issues with this champ, and i think you've fixed/ explained away most of them now anyway.


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Katsuni

Senior Member

06-22-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samus93 View Post
Nah man, i actually dont mind it that much myself, and well its a much better system then the post'n'leave thing most people do (including myself sometimes). And you're right, its mainly just balancing and stuff now, but when i first saw this champ that was really the only issue anyway - everything else is pretty much perfect.
Hei, I've been trying to tell people, accept criticism and do revisions XD Nothing, I repeat, NOTHING is ever done right the first time as good as it can possibly be... well, I guess there are exceptions in games in terms of set criteria can be matched flawlessly, but that's only because there are measurable criteria =3

Anything like character design, never done right the first time XD



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Works for me, i guess the passive/bloodied effect is this champs selling point anyway so its better to make it slightly OP then UP. But i don't actually think it is OP anymore, kinda hard to see without proper testing. Really the only issue is that AS is essential on her, but honestly armour is essential on Rammus and AP is essential on Annie so who really cares =P so ye Riot come chuck this guy in the game just so we can find out!
Yarr, and cooldown reduction works almost as well, in its' own way =3

The idea was that it'd be kinda silly for her to not be able to reduce cool downs in any way at all. Having it let her cast more quickly makes up for this nicely, I think =3

The attack speed, paired with her ultimate giving her extra at low health, also helps out so it's not like "tank that has to build no tanky items", otherwise it'd be near impossible to balance and people would just play her as a bruiser totally.

But yeah, there's too many champions already which have some "gimmick" that fail in their gimmick so totally that it's like, why is there even one present in the first place O.o

Only reason she's not using rage/energy/mana, is because each of these has a very specific purpose, and none of them will work properly with how I want her to play, so was forced to make an entirely new system up, because there literally wasn't a system present to properly do whot I wanted it to.

Rage was close, but once again, it'd still need so massive of an overhaul that it just wouldn't be rage anymore.

Also, I'd love it if Riot actually looked at it XD However, there's SO many champion postings on this forum, most of which are really, really sub-par (not saying they're bad, but very little thought or originality put into them due to just not devoting many hours of effort into them is all), which means they can't realistically dig through it for the good ones, other than those which get a lot of comments... of which, yeu'll notice, the ONLY ones which have riot posts are... the ones that were made before the forum was released, and were transferred over to it after the fact, and got hundreds of views/replies because they were in general chat and got a riot reply, which means massive population of people and everyone flocks to a red post.

The only way this will ever really stand out, is either it gets a TON of replies (as in literally 100+), which is highly, highly unlikely, considering that people tend to post their own champions and never look at any others, paired with the "TL-DR" syndrome of anything of quality people won't even look at because it takes too much time to read it.... or there is one alternative, but I can't do that on my own XD It can also get attention by being actively brought to the moderators' attention through email or posts... but if the originator of such is myself, it won't work, because then it'll just sound like a whiny brat going "HAY HAY HAY LISTEN LOOK AT MY STUFF PLEASE PLEASE PLZPLZZZZZZZZZZ", which won't accomplish anything.

So... yeah, I can only hope that somehow the quality gets enough attention somehow, and that it's somehow bumped back to the front page often enough through either people who look at it, or sneaky subterfuge ways (such as how I've intentionally waited for it to be on page 2-3 before replying to most comments *cough* ), to indirectly keep some attention on it.

Oh well.

Anyways, I'mma add some pictures and probably a 3D model soon too; got some basic sketches done, so will probably work on getting the scanner working soon, and see if I can't get mudbrush reinstalled so I can sculpt up a head model at least, and hopefully get maya reinstalled shortly after to do the in-game character model with some animations, and put it on youtube. THAT should get some views hopefully...



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Ye and thats fair enough, but i'd rather have the limit as it stops things from getting more silly (if you're on like 8% or something). And the only reason i have an issue with it is cuz it means that the lower on health you are: the less damage you take, the more AS you have and the less abilities cost .... but the fact that you have to be on low health to get these benefits balance it i guess so ye do what you want here man, just a suggestion that randomly popped into my head, its not really vital or interesting
Yarr, I want her to get low on health semi-easily; if she spams abilities at the beginning of a fight and properly uses matronage, she'll get there even if enemies AREN'T targeting her... but once she gets to about 50% health, she'll become exceedingly difficult to kill, so it balances out =3



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Ye i hadnt actually considered that - see i was visualising using this ability more for its utility then for its support, but now you've said that ... have you considered reducing the damage that you can take by 25% or something? Cuzi just saw you (having just returned from the fountain) seeing two of your allies about to being ulted by Karth, and so you go over and tag both and take the fallout great ability, gets better the more i learn about it. But ye, maybe reduce the damage a bit, just so people will actually want to use it. Oh and yes 30/10/30/35 would definitely work, so go for it
I considered it, but it'd be too strong that way. It already puts up a damage shield as it is, and she also has her ultimates passive further boosting her resistances, on top of any other tanky items she may normally build on top of that. Consider how much of a pain it can be to kill Shen or Cho'gath when played full on tanky as it is... giving her too much more resistance may be problematic :O

Though... I may make a minor tweak so that she takes reduced effect from CC effects used in this way. It's nice she can take the hits meant for someone else, but if she's intended to be active in a fight, it'd be kind of silly if she's constantly eating every silence, stun and disable the enemy team has, even if they're not targeting her, which would make it near impossible to play her.

I'll have to consider how that works. I may replace the damage shield with it actually, since both together may be too strong since she's already good at taking hits.



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honestly, all that ^^ is fine, i wanted E to not be able to be misused over and over again, and so the new buff should do. I also didnt realise you had a 1 second global cooldown after every cast ... im sure you can see why i thought you're abilities were OP now =P so: i;d go for 12 i think, that seems like a good number. and i'm just wondering if you think a one second silence after every ability may be a bit too .... annoying? not sure if thats the right word but ye ... you know what i mean
Yarr it's not quite as obvious since there's nowheres to put it in her normal abilities that makes sense. I listed it under her "targeting" sub-section, as it made the most sense to put it there.

The idea for that, is it'd be near impossible to even target her if she could literally spam Q like 4 times a second... and it'd be virtually impossible to prevent her from charging someone and instantly knocking them back, so a short, 1 second delay, allows her to still be excessively spammy, without being too overboard =3

The 1 second delay between spells isn't THAT bad... I play Sona a lot, and it's part of the price to pay for being able to spam so ridiculously fast. In this case though, she needs to be able to combo her abilities quickly, more so than Sona does.



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Thx man for that, I understand it now i can see how all the passive effects would tie in together, and i'm assuming the ally wounded/dead thing is a situational-activation like deal similar to the bonus damage and life steal? apart from that, everything is great. like i said, i dont really have many issues with this champ, and i think you've fixed/ explained away most of them now anyway.
Yeps, the idea is that if she had say... 1 dead ally and one at 30% health (it's under 50%), then she'd get +25% for the wounded, and +50% for the dead one at rank 3, so that it'd be +75% total. It would also heal her for 5+10% (15% total) of her MISSING health, so if she's nearly at full health, it doesn't do much, but if she's low on life, and has a large health pool already from items and her naturally high base life, she'd become near impossible to kill.

The idea is that if her team dies in a fight and the enemies do not attack her during that fight, that she'll then be PISSED and capable of actually taking 3-4 people on solo by herself at that point, assumming of course their ultimates are all gone now and they're all kinda low on health. It sucks having a tank who was just ignored all fight after their taunt was up *coughrammus* and then they're stuck with 3 people each at like 20% health, and just can't finish any of them off because they have no damage output, and all their allies are dead.

A tank needs to have some way to encourage people to attack them instead of someone else, and I consider taunts to be such a lame cop out that just doesn't work. This method, although very complex, should make for pretty much the ideal perfect "tank", without relying on taunt and stun as a crutch that every other "real tank" so far uses.


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Samus93

Senior Member

06-22-2011

hey hey hey, don't dis the Rammus, i main that guy and while a agree that a tank on their own often can't do enough damage to kill in a 3v1 fight, Rammus is one of those you do not want to run into. Him and mord i reckon .... anywayz somewhere in the middle of that ^^ you were talkign about emailing Riot about champ suggestions. Well i saw that you accepted Boston Stapler's request to review some of the champs on the PL - he also asked me to help if i could, and ive actually decided to sort through the PL and make a list of champs that i consider to be interesting or viable. I'll lower my standards somewhat so those that are not fleshed out but have an interesting mechanic/ playstyle etc still get in. But once i get this list, i might get you and Nick and the other 'regulars' to have a look through, and those that we all consider to be spectaculr we can send into Riot. Sorry ^^ bit long winded, just trying to explain everything.

Ye so i'm making a list of good champs, and once its done i'll try to do your idea and grab Riots attention ... maybe this time itll work and Nemhain will be on that list btw, and probably your Aradia.

EDIT: Sorry i forgot to mention that i'm only making a list at this stage, i will not be reviewing until i've finished searching through them all. But ye, the reviewing part could be interesting ..


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Katsuni

Senior Member

06-22-2011

Actually... I like the idea of that, rounding up the best ideas and packaging them all together <3

A list alone is useful and will help me on doing my reviews on the list as well since I have to do a lot more, have only done the one so far which took something like 2 hours XD

Sigh, I need to buy more hours in a day.

That or just not waste so many >.>;


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Samus93

Senior Member

06-22-2011

haha so true. Well ill keep checking back here to see what others think of Nemhain and to have a look at any changes you may make, but ye ill post up that list as soon as i can. gl with everything man


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Dremora Brimston

Senior Member

06-22-2011

i really love what you changed to the hero ALOT better it seems you and samus are working it out well : ) but i love the idea of a tank ult that makes it to where if you dont kill them first they get alot meaner that was absolutely brilliant the % of current health change was much needed i really like the changes to the champion much much better than the last time i looked at the champion

cant wait for the criticism on Dagon your comments are always so helpful


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