[Champion Suggestion] Nemhain the Alpha Prioress

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Katsuni

Senior Member

05-04-2011

Lore:

Quote:
Just south of the Great Barrier, in the northeastern corner of the Fyrone Flats, lies the barren landscape known now only as Effete. Practically all life was torn violently from it in the last few major magical battles, leaving it stripped bare.

Time, however, has a way of healing all. Even now, scarce vegetation and animal life returns, though much of it is mutated or disfigured.

The only sentient creatures known to live within Effete, are the Ferax, a matriarchal society that resulted from a massive overdose of magical energies within the local hyena-like population of creatures which dwelled there.

Cunning, feral, and ferocious, the deeply religious huntress tribes worshiped goddesses of battle, of hunt, and of terror. These might one day pose a significant threat to Demacia or Noxus, if it were not for their constant infighting between the tribes over minor differences in doctrine, such as how to properly sacrifice a live offering.

This, however, changed, with a Noxian raiding party, seeking a magical artifact of some sort within Effete. Thinking themselves more than a match for the mere ferals, the Noxians immediately sought to exterminate any of the savages they came across.

Several tribes were exterminated outright, until a war matriarch of the Blood Sand tribe stepped forth, and decimated the numbers of Noxus which had plagued their lands.

Nemhain, drenched in their blood and cackling maniacally to herself, realized that the only true way to keep the Noxians from overtaking her homeland and slaughtering her sisters, would be to attend the League of Legends she had heard about from a passing dignitary from Shurima.

Using her strengthened position amongst the tribes, as well as using a bit of leverage to simply 'remove' a few other matriarchs who disagreed with her, she soon managed to bring the tribes together into a rather loose alliance, with herself named as the Alpha Prioress of all the tribes.

With her new title, and newly forged twinned axes "Blood" and "Gore", wrought from the melted down armour of the Noxians, that came with the title, she set off for the league. Perhaps there, she would find a challenge worthy of her taste for battle. Perhaps there, she would sate her endless craving of bloodshed.
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Full Short Story: Blood of a Matriarch
Nemhain's got an entire short story, now, which fully details her rise to power, and whot led up to her eventual joining of The League of Legends.

Below, are all five chapters, with links to each.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
Chapter 1: Prelude to War
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Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
Chapter 2: Burden of Responsibility
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Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
Chapter 3: Of Snakes and Stones
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Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
Chapter 4: Battle of Mogron Pass
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Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
Chapter 5: Rise of The Alpha Prioress



Appearance
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Nemhain appears as a humanoid hyena, with crimson eyes, heavy black platemail with crimson highlights, and an enormous double headed battle axe in either hand.
Her armour is smeared with blood, and her axes glow a soft red, which glow brighter as her Fury increases, or dims entirely as it reaches 0.
Quotes:
Quote:
Upon selection:
"Like I need your permission to slaughter them."

Movement/Attacking:
"Why are they still breathing?"
Maniacal hyena-style laughter
"These wretches are unworthy of my blades"
"I can... smell them..."
"My favorite; raw meat."
"Looks like supper's ready then, is it?"
"Praise to the battle goddess"
"She can have their souls, as long as I get their flesh"
"Feed them to me"
"Viscera! Viscera! Viscera!"

Taunt:
"I shall enjoy your life like a fine red wine"

Joke:
"Guess who's in heat?"

Death:
"But they still live!"
Purpose:
Quote:
Nemhain is designed to be a tank from the ground up, though unlike most tanks, she doesn't rely on taunts or stuns to do her job.

Her overall purpose is to initiate a fight, wade into the enemy team, protect her allies and disrupt her enemies constantly. Instead of relying on typical AoE abilities, a new method has been introduced where she is capable of using her abilities as often as she pleases... but can't spam a single target with them, as each time she uses an ability on a particular target, that target is immune to that ability for some time. This allows her to use "AoE" type abilities, without blowing her whole load in one go then just kind of mulling about doing nothing for the rest of the fight, which is a common issue many tanks face, where they do their initiation, and after that, they are a mild irritant with a weak autoattack, and not much else.

Specifically, however, she is designed to work very well at low health, and to encourage enemies to attack her of their own accord. The longer in a fight that she's left alone, the more dangerous she becomes. If yeu kill her entire team and save her for last, she's probably going to mop the floor with baddies faces even if it's a 4v1 against her.

Target her first, however, and burn her down, and she's significantly easier to kill, and will be capable of far less damage output in that time. "Ignore the tank!" is the single, worst thing yeu could possibly do with Nemhain around.


Resource system
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Nemhain uses a modified version of the "Fury" system. It's still close enough to work as fury, but has been adapted to work with her play style significantly better. The standard "Fury" system simply doesn't work with the concept of a tank all that well, so she's not able to utilize the generic "+Fury on attack, goes down out of combat."

As a tank, she has to have the capacity to have her full power available when she first starts a fight, and to be encouraged to stick in the middle of a fight, rather than hit and run attacks. While fury works on the latter half naturally, quite well, the former has led to some significant alterations to make it work.
Targeting:
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Nemhains' abilities behave differently from all current champions as of the time of this posting, in that they don't have an inherent cooldown of their own (other than a 1.0 second global cooldown).

Instead, each time she uses an ability on an ally or enemy, they become temporarily immune to that ability for a short time. During this time, an icon will appear above the target's head, representing the ability in question, which will fade out as its timer runs out until it's gone entirely and may be used again.

This allows the summoner to quickly assess which targets are valid to use her abilities on at a glance.

Each ability has a separate COLOUR and distinctive ICON shape, so that they are more readily identified, even if the player is colourblind.

Passive: Can be reapplied to a target, refreshing the duration, so does not fall under this category. However, enemies which are Bloodied drip red 'blood' and are tinted RED on Nemhain's screen.
Q: Creates a BLUE CIRCLE icon of an AXE over their head. (Enemies)
W: Creates a GREEN TRIANGLE icon of a SHIELD over their head. (Allies)
E: Creates a YELLOW HEXAGON icon of a PAW WITH CLAWS over their head. (Enemies)
R: Creates a RED SQUARE icon of a pair of FANGS over their head. (Enemies)



Stats
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Damage 54 (+3.4 / per level)
Level 1: 57
Level 18: 115

Health 483 (+86 / per level)
Level 1: 569
Level 2: 2031

Fury 100 (+0 / per level)

Move Speed 310

Armor 15 (+2.55 / per level)
Level 1: 18 (enough to jungle)
Level 18: 62 (intentionally low for a tank)

Spell Block 30 (+0 / per level)

Health Regen 1.49 (+0.14 / per level)
Level 1: 8.15 per 5 seconds
Level 18: 20.05 per 5 seconds (abnormally high to help with life loss spell costs)

Fury Regen 5 (+0 / per level)
Per 5 seconds: 25
Abilities
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Passive: Battlelust
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Nemhain is addicted, pure and simply, to combat. When not actively tearing something apart, she grows impatient, her desire to kill rising rapidly. When shedding blood, it only heightens her desire to kill, and she feeds directly from her enemies.

Nemhain gains 5 Fury per second and does not lose Fury outside of combat. Each melee hit also gains 10 additional Fury. Additionally, each melee hit causes the "Bloodied" effect upon the enemy damaged, granting unit sight and applying all currently learned Fresh Blood effects for 6 seconds.

Fresh Blood: Attacking a non-bloodied target grants Nemhain 25% of her Cooldown Reduction Fury on hit. If a bloodied target is attacked, Nemhain gains only 10% of her Cooldown Reduction as Fury on hit.

Purpose: Battlelust has been significantly reworked, again. In its new incarnation, it supports allies by preventing juking or stealth characters from simply leaving a battle. Additionally, it now works in a more streamlined fashion with Fury, as opposed to needing to explain the BloodThirst system. The application of her Fresh Blood abilities is still intact, though Battlelust now actually gains its own Fresh Blood effect. This effectively means, with 40% Cooldown Reduction, that Nemhain will gain 20 Fury on her first melee hit against a target, and 14 for subsequent attacks against a bloodied target. This change helps limit the loss of direct CDR gain and that of the loss of Blue buff, among other things.
Q Skill: Feral Charge
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Nemhain dashes at a targeted enemy, slashing at them with both her axes and lands behind them. If the target is bloodied, she also slows the target, lasting longer the closer they are to her initial casting position. There is no cooldown on the skill itself, instead, it can only target individual enemies every so often, as they gain a buff which prevents them from being charged again for a short time.

Purpose: Feral charge is used to get into range of enemies, to position for her knockback, and to slow the target so they're easier to kill. Note that she only slows targets who are bloodied, making it a support ability when used on targets she has already been in melee range of, and a mobility tool otherwise, forcing the player to decide how to use it most effectively. Combined with Fresh Blood, this is intended as the level 1 skill to put a point into when jungling.

Targets allowed: Enemy champions, minions.
Range: 800
Cooldown: Enemies gain a buff that prevents them from being targeted by Feral Charge again for 10 seconds (Creates a BLUE CIRCLE icon of an AXE over their head that gradually fades as the timer runs out.)
Slow duration: 3.0 at melee, to 1.5 at max range
Fury cost: 25
Health cost: 5% of current health
Fresh Blood: Attacking an enemy who is not Bloodied now heals Nemhain for 4/5/6/7/8% of her missing health. If a Bloodied target is attacked, the heal is only half as effective.

Rank 1: Charges at the target, dealing 60% of Nemhain's attack damage, and landing behind them. If the target is bloodied, their attack and movement speed is also slowed by 35%, and damage increases to 90%.
Rank 2: Charges at the target, dealing 70% of Nemhain's attack damage, and landing behind them. If the target is bloodied, their attack and movement speed is also slowed by 35% and damage increases to 105%.
Rank 3: Charges at the target, dealing 80% of Nemhain's attack damage, and landing behind them. If the target is bloodied, their attack and movement speed is also slowed by 35% and damage increases to 120%.
Rank 4: Charges at the target, dealing 90% of Nemhain's attack damage, and landing behind them. If the target is bloodied, their attack and movement speed is also slowed by 35% and damage increases to 135%.
Rank 5: Charges at the target, dealing 100% of Nemhain's attack damage, and landing behind them. If the target is bloodied, their attack and movement speed is also slowed by 35% and damage increases to 150%.
W skill: Matronage
Quote:
Nemhain does not accept her 'children', as she thinks of the others under her protection, to be harmed, and will dive in front of them to take a hit that was meant for someone else. As she does this more often, she also becomes significantly more aggressive.

Purpose: This was added as a way to help her "guard" allies, and to give her a "snowball" effect of sorts, which would encourage enemies to further try to focus her down. Combined with her Q, she can move pretty much unhindered around the battlefield, being where ever she needs to be immediately, and more or less takes the role of where a taunt would go. Note that tenacity does NOT stack with other tenacity effects. This means she's encouraged to get Ninja Tabi boots over the standard Mercurial Treads. With the Fresh Blood effect, this is meant to also draw additional fire, and greatly enhance her usefulness in supporting her team. The Fresh Blood effect also further encourages enemies to attack her directly, and encourages her player to protect her allies.



Targets allowed: Allied champions
Range: 650
Cooldown: Allies gain a buff that prevents them from being targeted by Matronage again for 7 seconds (Creates a GREEN TRIANGLE icon over their head, shaped like a SHIELD that gradually fades as the timer runs out.)
Duration: 2 seconds
Fury cost: 10
Health cost: 0
Fresh Blood: Each time Nemhain intercepts an attack or ability using Matronage, her Bloodied effect gains a 1/1.5/2/2.5/3 magic resist and armour shred, to a maximum of 20/30/40/50/60. Each time she dies, the stack is reduced by half its' current value, rounded up.

Rank 1: Leaps in front of target allied champion and the effect of the next enemy champion attack or ability is instead directed to Nemhain. Damage from the attack is reduced by 30 +60% of her AP and she gains 20 tenacity vs attacks intercepted in this manner.
Rank 2: Leaps in front of target allied champion and the effect of the next enemy champion attack or ability is instead directed to Nemhain. Damage from the attack is reduced by 60 +70% of her AP and she gains 30 tenacity vs attacks intercepted in this manner.
Rank 3: Leaps in front of target allied champion and the effect of the next enemy champion attack or ability is instead directed to Nemhain. Damage from the attack is reduced by 90 +80% of her AP and she gains 40 tenacity vs attacks intercepted in this manner.
Rank 4: Leaps in front of target allied champion and the effect of the next enemy champion attack or ability is instead directed to Nemhain. Damage from the attack is reduced by 120 +90% of her AP and she gains 50 tenacity vs attacks intercepted in this manner.
Rank 5: Leaps in front of target allied champion and the effect of the next enemy champion attack or ability is instead directed to Nemhain. Damage from the attack is reduced by 150 +100% of her AP and she gains 60 tenacity vs attacks intercepted in this manner.
E skill: Decimation
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Slamming an enemy with the flat side of one of her axes, she sends the target flying. If the target is Bloodied, also silences them upon landing. Has no cooldown on itself but is instead prevented from targeting the same target again for a duration.

Purpose: This is meant to set enemies up for being torn apart by allies, or to be used in a gank scenario if she's jungling. Utilizing her other abilities, she can pop out of nowhere, slow an enemy, lower their defenses, and knock them back into her team mates, slowed and silenced, allowing a few free seconds of attacking them. This is a much more involved and complex method of essentially "taunting" an enemy, that requires more skill on the players' part, but can be significantly more rewarding if done well. The scaling of this ability is abnormally high to encourage the use of +AP tank items, alongside her Matronage ability, as she otherwise doesn't scale off of AP. The attack speed gain is specifically added to Decimation, to better her capacity at jungling early game.



Targets allowed: Enemy champions, minions
Range: Melee
Cooldown: Enemies gain a buff that prevents them from being decimated again for 12 seconds (Creates a Creates a YELLOW HEXAGON icon of a PAW WITH CLAWS over their head that gradually fades as the timer runs out.)
Knockback distance: 475 at all ranks
Fury Cost: 25
Health Cost: 5% of Current health
Fresh Blood: As long as a target is Bloodied, for every 1% health Nemhain is missing, she attacks 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1.0% faster.

Rank 1: Backhands the target, knocking them back and dealing 40 (+0.6 AP) damage. If the target is bloodied, they are also silenced for 2 seconds, and damage increases to 60 (+0.9 AP).
Rank 2: Backhands the target, knocking them back and dealing 60 (+0.6 AP) damage. If the target is bloodied, they are also silenced for 2 seconds, and damage increases to 90 (+0.9 AP).
Rank 3: Backhands the target, knocking them back and dealing 80 (+0.6 AP) damage. If the target is bloodied, they are also silenced for 2 seconds, and damage increases to 120 (+0.9 AP).
Rank 4: Backhands the target, knocking them back and dealing 100 (+0.6 AP) damage. If the target is bloodied, they are also silenced for 2 seconds, and damage increases to 150 (+0.9 AP).
Rank 5: Backhands the target, knocking them back and dealing 120 (+0.6 AP) damage. If the target is bloodied, they are also silenced for 2 seconds, and damage increases to 180 (+0.9 AP).
R skill: Frenzy (Ultimate)
Quote:
Nemhain revels in combat, and is not at home unless she's drenched in blood, be it her own, her enemies, her allies, it really doesn't matter, but like any animal, she is at her most dangerous when she's either wounded, or her "children" are harmed or killed. Passively, the lower on health she becomes, the greater her damage reduction against bloodied targets becomes. Also, when activated, she bites an enemy, dealing damage. If the target is bloodied, then Frenzy gains enhanced damage and heals Nemhain for a portion of her missing health, based on the number of allies who are wounded or dead. Has no cooldown on itself, but is instead prevented from targeting the same target again for a duration.

Purpose: Frenzy encourages her to engage in combat and stay there, even when low on health, or during a losing battle, so that she can better defend in overwhelming odds. It also grants her significantly stronger allied support, as she's supposed to be fighting with her allies, anyway, as a tank. With the fact that she grows stronger, the longer yeu leave her alone in a group fight, this should further enhance the reason to attack her first, especially with how the new Fresh Blood effect works in making her more dangerous when there's fewer enemies around and she has had time to apply her Bloodied effect on each of them. The damage reduction on her Fresh Blood effect encourages her to spread her attacks around, and, in combination with Matronage, further emphasizes stunlocking her directly, instead of her allies.

Note: At 50% health missing, she effectively has -15/25/35% damage taken from enemies she has attacked within the last 6 seconds. This scales up and down depending on how much life she has lost, and has no effect if that enemy is not Bloodied.


Targets allowed: Enemy champions
Range: Melee
Cooldown: Enemies gain a buff that prevents them from being targeted by Frenzy again for 12 seconds (Creates a RED SQUARE icon of a pair of FANGS over their head that gradually fades as the timer runs out.)
Fury cost: 40
Health Cost: 5% of Current health
Fresh Blood: Targets which are Bloodied deal 0.3/0.5/0.7% reduced damage to Nemhain, per 1% of her health she is missing. (Stacks with Ninja Tabi)
Scaling: To clarify, this ability only scales from allies being injured or dead.

Rank 1: Deals 125 physical damage to the targeted enemy plus an extra 30 damage per ally who is dead. If the target is Bloodied, this attack also heals Nemhain for 10% of her missing health for each dead ally.
Rank 2: Deals 175 physical damage to the targeted enemy plus an extra 50 damage per ally who is dead. If the target is Bloodied, this attack also heals Nemhain for 10% of her missing health for each dead ally.
Rank 3: Deals 225 physical damage to the targeted enemy plus an extra 70 damage per ally who is dead. If the target is Bloodied, this attack also heals Nemhain for 10% of her missing health for each dead ally.
EDITS:
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Due to character limitations, the previous changelog has been moved to post #16, situated on page #2.

Interesting Fun Fact - Nemhain was originally posted exactly 1 year ago.

5th May, 2012, 10:56AM AST - Fixed some typos and minor issues, as well as a major overhaul workup, of which her Bloodthirst resource system was converted to Fury.

PICTURES: Two of Nemhain's icons are completed, in a creepy sort of "white on black" background, which I rather like, and feel is fitting for her. Additionally, an image of one of her axes was completed in Maya some time ago, as well as a low quality sketch of her head. These have been added to the main post, rather than scattered about haphazardly.

STATS:
- Changed Bloodthirst to Fury.

There's been enough adjustments to Fury over the time since Nemhain was originally envisioned, that I feel she's able to reasonably work off ofFury, now. It's still a little messy, but it should be easier for players to understand, this way. I personally think bloodthirst's a better fit, than Fury, but it's not better "enough" of a fit to warrant keeping it any longer.

RESOURCE:
- Bloodthirst is now Fury
- No longer benefits from the Ancient Golem's blue buff.
- No longer benefits from Cooldown Reduction on the regeneration per second.
- Regeneration effect altered from 20 per second, out of 1000, to 5 per second, out of 100. This is proportionately higher to compensate for the previous two changes.
- Fury gained per hit altered from 75 per attack, out of 1000, to 10 per attack, out of 100. This will cause her to spike up and down in Fury considerably more frequently as her costs have been adjusted for such.
- The total Fury costs still total to 100% of Fury, allowing her to use each ability once on a full Fury bar, and Matronage once per autoattack with 0% CDR.

BATTLELUST:
- No longer directly causes full benefits from Cooldown Reduction
- Now provides 5 Fury generation per second
- Now provides 10 Fury per melee attack
- Now has a Fresh Blood effect
- Fresh Blood provides 25% of CDR as bonus Fury on attacking a non-bloodied target, and 10% of CDR as bonus Fury on attacking a bloodied target
- These changes streamline the previous effects, and have essentially the same effect as they did before

FERAL CHARGE:
- Updated purpose to reflect changes, as this hadn't been done for some time and there were a few errors
- Can now target enemy minions again, allowing for more useful jungling
- Bloodthirst cost of 275, changed to a Fury cost of 25

MATRONAGE:
- Updated purpose to reflect changes and provide greater insight into why the skill works as it does.
- The armour shred from Decimation has been migrated and merged into Matronage's Fresh Blood
- Bloodthirst cost of 75, changed to a Fury cost of 10
- This is in line with "1 standard melee hit, with 0% CDR = 1 Matronage use"

DECIMATION:
- Knockback range changed from 400/500/600/700/800 to 475 at all ranks.
- The attack speed boost from Frenzy has been migrated into Decimation's Fresh Blood.
- Migraded the armour shred from Decimation to Matronage.
- Can now target enemy minions and neutral creeps again
- Bloodthirst cost of 275, changed to a Fury cost of 25

FRENZY:
- Updated purpose
- Migrated the attack speed boost of her Fresh Blood effect to Decimation instead.
- Increased damage reduction from 0.25/0.45/0.65 to 0.3/0.5/0.7. This effectively means, at 99% health missing, she will have approximately 30/50/70% damage reduction against targets she has attacked within the last 6 seconds.
- No longer provides half benefit scaling for allies who are under 50% health, rather than dead.
- Bloodthirst cost of 375, changed to a Fury cost of 40


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IS1c5019c283e69d4080426

Senior Member

05-05-2011

A very intersting idea.

Here are my thoughts (although note they are FAAAAAAAAAAAAR from objective, and I could as well be wrong)

The concept is solid. For some reason I'm always thinking of a gnoll from Warcraft III.

The idea of having a non-human female character is good too, too few of those around.

The Bloodthirst thing is kinda iffy. It seems to be too similar too energy, and although I could certainly understand why you wouldn't want to use energy (normally reserved for martial artists), it's still too similar to be worth a NEW resource system.
The whole bonus attack speed thing could easily serve as her passive, or even better, a passive for one of her skills.

As for the main skillset:

Firstly, All your abilities benefit from the Bloodied effect, yet you need to research a skill in order to have access to it. This kinda limits the ways you could build her.
Don't get me wrong, you won't find any guides for Veigar that suggest you don't get Baleful Strike, or any Sion guides that suggest you skip Gaze, but you get my point.

Her whole idea kinda sound like Brand minus the flexibility. Here you ALWAYS need to cast her W to get the other effects.

The bloodied thing COULD be her innate passive, or you could just put 1 point in her W, and max her other skills.

I like the sweet synergy between her Q, and her E, a charge and a knockdown are two abilities that can be used in any order and still be effective. I imagine the clasic Tristana combo of dash+knockback, or even better knockback+dash into a tower (same ,with the slow). However I do think it's a bit too strong since her q makes you appear automatically behind her opponent, and it also slows.
So a W+Q+E combo is a guaranteed death sentence near a tower or a teammate. Her Q doesn't need any skill to land (unlike tristana) so you'll always end up pushing the enemy into the direction you want.

My main problem with her seems to be that she's simply way too difficult to play.

I know that kinda makes me sound like a moron, but let me elaborate.

Firstly, you say she's a tank. Tanks are already notorious for being an unpopular choice, making one that's incredibly hard to play is not good.

Here you're asking players to know on which enemies they have cast which spells.
If i'm reading this right, you're asking players to keep an eye on 3 seperate debuffs on EACH player, in a hectic teamfight, whilst they're already busy with their role (ganker, or worst tank). As a Casiopeia player, just keeping an eye on ONE buff on 5 players is hard, let alone 3.
How will these 3 buffs display on each player?
Are you asking players to time how many seconds each buff has been on each player? What if they get merc treads? Or Cleanse?

Secondly, your ult requires that you KNOW which player has done the most damage to your team to use it at its full potential.
So, in addition to keeping track of 3 buffs on 5 players AND tanking, you must know who has done the most damage?
Ok sometimes it'll be easy to spot (that 1200 AP Veigar sure looks harmless), but if they have 2 carries are you suggesting you rush them both, frenzy strike them and try to ult them before they focus you down?

Sure this could rock when that guy that just got a triple kill gets one shotted, but in hectic teamfights with lots of maneuvering and retreating it'll be hard to spot.

Overall although her skills are impressive, she simply looks like too much of a hassle to play, and whoever tries it will get focused down in 2 seconds.


To not end this on a low-note, her taunt and joke are more awesome than every joke I've heard in the last 2 days, so congrats on that.

PS: Sorry I couldn't make this structured, I just wrote down thoughts as they came to me.


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Katsuni

Senior Member

05-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apopei Viorel II View Post
A very intersting idea.
Thanks! And oops, I meant to reply to this some time ago and forgot XD

Quote:
Here are my thoughts (although note they are FAAAAAAAAAAAAR from objective, and I could as well be wrong)
No one person can have objective thoughts; we all have a bias, we all have preferences, and moreso, we can only see things from a limited number of perspectives; some may see more than others but it's still limited =3

Quote:
The concept is solid. For some reason I'm always thinking of a gnoll from Warcraft III.
That would probably be because Gnolls are technically hyenas. I didn't like the design of them in appearance, however, and wanted her to seem more like strong, ferocious and feral, rather than just hunchbacked and whiny.

The original character I based her off of though, is actually from my WoW female orc warrior XD She had just the right level of strength, bloodlust, and such without loosing too much femininity, and without being stereotypical.

A cute quote that was just a PERFECT thought for this, was an odd questy which has probably since been removed, where yeu bring a 'love' letter from an orc girl to her boyfriend... who's a butcher and she goes on about how she just giggled wildly when he cut one of his fingers off accidentally, and how cute he is when he's bleeding XD

I liked the idea, being very prone to frenzy, and a strong, capable concept, without falling for stereotypical 'strong female' roles which usually just end up acting like guys, or like the 'feminazi' format.

Quote:
The idea of having a non-human female character is good too, too few of those around.
Yarr, all too true sadly. It's a bit of a psychological thing... females have been cast in a physical light of having to conform to a certain appearance. If they don't, women find them hard to relate to, and men find them unappealing, more than a 'guy' who is very alien in appearance, oddly. Hence, why pretty much any time yeu get an exotic female in almost anything, they always seem to appear more human than the male of the species (look at WoW for a strong example of this, or LoL, which has virtually none, and the few it has still all pretty much conform to typical human female appearance, even soraka, cass and the meglings).

Quote:
The Bloodthirst thing is kinda iffy. It seems to be too similar too energy, and although I could certainly understand why you wouldn't want to use energy (normally reserved for martial artists), it's still too similar to be worth a NEW resource system.
The whole bonus attack speed thing could easily serve as her passive, or even better, a passive for one of her skills.
Mmm, unfortunately energy on its' own didn't quite work right, and the only way to make energy work, was to make significant changes to it, to the point that it may as well not be energy any longer. The newer one is a little more fitting anyway, and works better with her very low cooldown capacity of gameplay, letting her bounce around the field as much as she wants, so long as she pauses for a few hits in between now and then.

Quote:
As for the main skillset:

Firstly, All your abilities benefit from the Bloodied effect, yet you need to research a skill in order to have access to it. This kinda limits the ways you could build her.
Don't get me wrong, you won't find any guides for Veigar that suggest you don't get Baleful Strike, or any Sion guides that suggest you skip Gaze, but you get my point.
This is actually intentional, as the idea is to force the player to add some additional risk and choices in on such. If, as yeu say, she charges right into an enemy... the setup is perfect to toss them in the right direction. If, however, yeu stop to bloody them first, yeu risk missing that perfect window. It also costs a fair bit of bloodthirst resource, which can mean being less effective from trying to do too much.

In the jungle, or 1v1, she'll typically want to always bloody her opponents, but in a large group fight, the player will be forced to evaluate whether it's really worth it or not on an individual basis, and that kind of snap reaction thinking is whot I really like about her =3

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Her whole idea kinda sound like Brand minus the flexibility. Here you ALWAYS need to cast her W to get the other effects.
Honestly, I've always felt brand doesn't really have much flexibility, as some of his abilities are just flat out more effective to use to start up his combo than others, especially his E, which, against a single target, does not really have any negative effect to starting with, which I feel limits his flexibility to virtually nothing then.

As Nemhain has finite bloodthirst to work with, and her abilities require fast reaction speed and positioning to be used properly, I feel there's more choice presented on when to use her W at all, whereas Brand doesn't even really need to think much about his.

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The bloodied thing COULD be her innate passive, or you could just put 1 point in her W, and max her other skills.
Yeu very well could put one point into it, but then yeu're depriving her of her capacity to heal, and her other abilities all also cost health, which means yeu'll want at least some into W to keep her alive.

Building the bloodied into the passive though, I think simplifies things a little bit too much, unfortunately, and removes the choices to be made entirely. I considered it for a bit, but felt it just didn't really work quite the way I wanted it to.

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I like the sweet synergy between her Q, and her E, a charge and a knockdown are two abilities that can be used in any order and still be effective. I imagine the clasic Tristana combo of dash+knockback, or even better knockback+dash into a tower (same ,with the slow). However I do think it's a bit too strong since her q makes you appear automatically behind her opponent, and it also slows.
So a W+Q+E combo is a guaranteed death sentence near a tower or a teammate. Her Q doesn't need any skill to land (unlike tristana) so you'll always end up pushing the enemy into the direction you want.
Not quite a guaranteed death sentance, but if yeu're letting her W first, she's already in melee range, which is a bad place for any tank to be. Alistar can do the same thing already if he's already in melee range, and his is hardly a guaranteed death sentence.

Now admittedly, her Q is not a skill shot. I wanted it to be a little harder to aim, but came to the realization that if I did, then it would be way too spammable, and too strong for defense. There'd be no way to prevent her from casting it over and over without a target, without turning it into an ughly mess trying to explain how it worked.

Keeping it only affecting a single target limits it to only being useful to getting to enemies or positioning oneself for combat, and keeps it from being useful as an escape mechanism as well. It's a bit of a tradeoff there. Skill shot charges are simply more powerful than non-skillshot ones because of the mechanics behind how they work.

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My main problem with her seems to be that she's simply way too difficult to play.

I know that kinda makes me sound like a moron, but let me elaborate.
Whot can I say, sometimes I'm a little masochistic when it comes to gameplay XD

I've got a thing for champions where yeu have to think on yeur feet and change playstyle in less than a second based on whot the enemy is doing. Champions which QWER without any change to the situation they're in bother me.

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Firstly, you say she's a tank. Tanks are already notorious for being an unpopular choice, making one that's incredibly hard to play is not good.
Or more specifically, it's very good, because the people who tend to play tanks, tend to also prefer to play complex champions =3

Not all, obviously, but it is a notable trend, seeing as how tanks are more difficult to play for their rewards.

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Here you're asking players to know on which enemies they have cast which spells.
If i'm reading this right, you're asking players to keep an eye on 3 seperate debuffs on EACH player, in a hectic teamfight, whilst they're already busy with their role (ganker, or worst tank). As a Casiopeia player, just keeping an eye on ONE buff on 5 players is hard, let alone 3.
How will these 3 buffs display on each player?
Are you asking players to time how many seconds each buff has been on each player? What if they get merc treads? Or Cleanse?
The main problem here seems to be a misunderstanding on how these are applied.

First off, they BUFF the enemy player, which means that they can't be removed by cleanse, merc treads, or anything that affects harmful abilities, because those are debuffs. This counts as a friendly benefit so it can't be affected by such (I actually thought this through when making it, I should have specified further ^^ )

The second issue is that, unlike Cass, who has no way of telling if they're still poisoned (which by the time she checked it'd have worn off anyway since her poisons only last 2 and 3 seconds). In this manner, I devised the idea of simply putting a little animation above the enemys' head, a circular timer similar to how the cooldown on yeur spells works already, with it disappearing over time instead of filling up. Each would have a small icon which makes it more obvious which one is which (perhaps colour coding them would be a good idea too? I may go back and change that so it's easier to see).

If a baddie has an icon left above their head, they are immune to one of the abilities still, but yeu can tell at a glance which ability it is and roughly how much time left it has. This is the only way the champion is even remotely viable to play, otherwise she'd be nearly unusable.

I like complex, but I hate not having vitally important information easily accessible. A poor interface is not a valid method of game balance (tell that to FFXI, who honestly believes the game is hard, when the biggest threat is yeur GUI, not the game's monsters)

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Secondly, your ult requires that you KNOW which player has done the most damage to your team to use it at its full potential.
So, in addition to keeping track of 3 buffs on 5 players AND tanking, you must know who has done the most damage?
Ok sometimes it'll be easy to spot (that 1200 AP Veigar sure looks harmless), but if they have 2 carries are you suggesting you rush them both, frenzy strike them and try to ult them before they focus you down?
This comes down to how a tank plays normally anyway; if one is playing a tank, yeu generally have to identify who the threat is and keep track of the entire enemy team anyway. If yeu're playing a tank well to begin with, this is a null point as yeu already know who is doing the most damage and whether they've blown their load yet or not.

Personally, I'd just as soon reward tanks for having to do that as it is, as they already do it without reward.

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Sure this could rock when that guy that just got a triple kill gets one shotted, but in hectic teamfights with lots of maneuvering and retreating it'll be hard to spot.
Which is good. Careful observation should be given a bonus =3 It's also only good for 5 seconds though, so yeu don't really have to worry about "the whole fight", so much as "someone just died so now I know who is a prime target". Using it to full extent before someone dies though, can make her that much more powerful, but this does come down to observation and player skill.

Keep in mind it's also a small forwards arc AoE, so with good positioning with her Q, she can line it up to hit more than one enemy if she's not sure which to hit. This also directly causes enemies to spread out more than they would, limiting their own positioning choices indirectly, which is a strong indirect benefit. A tank should be capable of herding enemies, and she can do so without even using any abilities.

Does it require the player to be much more attentive to get the most out of her? Definitely. She doesn't hand feed kills to anyone, and yeu do have to work for it. I'd rather reward people for paying attention, than just mindlessly hitting their ultimate for a free kill (*coughanniebotcough* the bot shows the true form of qwr instagib without any thought or decision making process at all).




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Overall although her skills are impressive, she simply looks like too much of a hassle to play, and whoever tries it will get focused down in 2 seconds.
As she does get harder to kill the lower on life she gets, and she's capable of some pretty respectable healing if she tosses in a bit of tanky-AP items, she probably won't just be focused down in 2 seconds. More like 5-10, which, if the enemy team is wasting their time focus firing the tank down first, it's exactly whot a tank SHOULD be doing in the first place, and could very well cause a win.

If they DON'T focus fire her down first, and just leave her alive, the enemy teams' positioning will be ruined, their tanks and melee kept away from squishies, and their own squishies tossed into easy killing distance of her own team, not to mention she can butcher them as she pleases with her R. This leads to a tank that doesn't need a taunt.

As a bruiser, she may be a little awkward to play; mostly I intend her more to be primarily a tank first, and to allow a tank player who likes her to keep using her if someone else picks a tank, letting her build into another way. The player would still likely prefer her as a tank (as most players wouldn't use a tank otherwise so wouldn't use her full range of capability), so could get more out of her as a bruiser than most would.

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To not end this on a low-note, her taunt and joke are more awesome than every joke I've heard in the last 2 days, so congrats on that.
Thanks XD

I was a bit concerned with the joke, honestly, was wondering if it was going perhaps a little too far. But it was so awesome an idea I couldn't help it XD


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PS: Sorry I couldn't make this structured, I just wrote down thoughts as they came to me.
Pft, I'm no different =3 The thoughts are good, and I hope I've given adequate explanation for them! I figure it should go as a point-counterpoint, back and forth, and if yeu can show it really is a steady concern that I can't argue against, then it probably needs changed XD

If I can reason through it without changing anything, then probably don't need to =3

That being said, I do think I'll go back and colour code her buff icons on enemy players so they're easier to identify quickly.



In case yeu read this again, (or anyone else does for that matter =D ), could yeu grace me the honour of looking at my newest creation, Aradia? http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=723530

If yeu have yeur own champs, I wouldn't mind taking a peak as well ^^


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NickPham

Senior Member

05-16-2011

Great concept, I'll try a second read at a later time because this is all kind of hard to conceptualize balance wise ATM. Although I have to say the ulti seems out of place, and is not all that interesting to me. This champ can have better.

Sounds insanely fun to play, if not a bit powerful. I read your design notes post (which led me here) and can't seem to find a weakness in this champ.

On an off note, I would like to ask you if you had noticed that your (brilliant) resource system has yielded the only system I would consider makes a pure attack speed build worthwhile, because while other champs benefitted from attackspeed because of natural damage procs (Jax, Teemo, Yi, MF) your champ has the possibility of making attackspeed central to UTILITY! Think that over!


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Katsuni

Senior Member

05-16-2011

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Originally Posted by NickPham View Post
Great concept, I'll try a second read at a later time because this is all kind of hard to conceptualize balance wise ATM. Although I have to say the ulti seems out of place, and is not all that interesting to me. This champ can have better.
Mmm the main goal of the ultimate was to try to indirectly force enemies to attack her first before allies, without resorting to a taunt, since I find taunts to be such a crutch in champion design. It's like yeu couldn't think of any way to make the tank actually tank... so yeu toss in a taunt to make up for the lack of imagination.

It may need a rework though, yeu may be right. I'll mull it over some =3


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Sounds insanely fun to play, if not a bit powerful. I read your design notes post (which led me here) and can't seem to find a weakness in this champ.
Hrm, now that yeu've mentioned it, I think yeu may have a point here as well. She tanks, stuns, knockbacks, can chase, and do damage with minimal gear.

I may have to go back and make some adjustments to her scaling, and am not sure how to do so just yet.

Still, I loved the concept of a champion who could constantly bounce all over an enemy team, disrupting positioning and effectiveness. Tanks have a bad habit of running in, using their 2-3 abilities, and then having nothing to do for the next 10-12 seconds while they wait on cooldowns, which tend to be fairly high.

I really want to have a face paced playstyle which involves constantly updating ones' awareness of whot's going on, and being able to do something about it, instead of being like "I'd love to help but everything's on cooldown".

Being able to affect each champion individually at different times seemed a natural extension of an "aoe" ability; instead of like just an AoE stun, yeu can affect their entire team... but yeu have to do it separately, one person at a time, and can choose when to do the interruption, instead of having to blow the whole load at once.

I still want to keep that core mechanic in mind, but am not sure about the ultimate, as yeu've said. It does kind of give her too much raw damage without gear, which concerns me now that it's been brought to my attention.

I'll have to do so later on when I'm awake enough to think of something useful to replace it with =3



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On an off note, I would like to ask you if you had noticed that your (brilliant) resource system has yielded the only system I would consider makes a pure attack speed build worthwhile, because while other champs benefitted from attackspeed because of natural damage procs (Jax, Teemo, Yi, MF) your champ has the possibility of making attackspeed central to UTILITY! Think that over!
Yep, the whole champion concept is based around speed, and doing things quickly in combat. Pretty much every other tank so far comes down to just autoattacking after they blow their load, which is silly considering that tanking is one of the most reactive and challenging things to do in the game, in concept... instead it's been made terribly trite and boring almost. The attack speed is a bit difficult, however, to balance, as there's not many tanky items at all which provide attack speed as part of the build. As such, I also tacked on some innate attack speed into the resource system so that a good player can choose when to unload their full power, and when to hold back, allowing for more consistent output when near full due to the attack speed.

The idea of a resource system feeding on itself (more hits = more bloodthirst = more attack speed = more hits) in a loop like that was intentional, and one I rather like, as it encourages one to try to stay near the top end, which allows yeu to spam abilities more often, but also gives the player the option to burst all of them out quickly in a moments' notice if absolutely necessary.

Regardless, the idea is to keep her from having too much attack speed, hence the knowledge of lack of attack speed tanky items, meaning I know she can't get "too" strong off that alone.

Anyways, thanks for the comments, yeu've given me some stuff to think about which I hadn't previously considered, not quite sure whot I'll do about such yet =3


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NickPham

Senior Member

05-16-2011

Added a TL : DR of suggestions for your concept below.

Wits end and madreds give a fair amount of resist, and madreds has unmistakably synergy. Guinsoo also has a lot of synergy. Don't make her scale too well off AP at all I think... You want to make her annoying as hell if left to autoattack all she wants, but not inherently dangerous damage wise.

I love the idea of bouncing around as well, and think that it would make the champ a worthwhile target. Unfortunately as it is I can't seem to find a reason to pick up a force of nature or sunfire over those items, resulting in something similar to Irelia. I would like to see her stat scaling just absolutely blow, but with strong bases, to discourage full on bruiser builds. What you should be looking to aim for is a Cho'gath like balance, where the optimal build path is tanky, but you want to sneak in as much AP or in this case, attackspeed as you can manage. What's cool is that the champ screams for a frozen mallet, which is a tanky item.

After looking through again, I don't think it's necessary to make a new resource system, fury can work with it. All you would need is to tone frenzied strike down into an on hit passive, and give it an activatable ability that gives her a quick burst of fury to get her started. As it is 4 activatable damage skills is kind of hard to manage especially when you are dealing with a limited resource system. Something you can consider is remove the % health damage. I can see you would want to hop around to apply the DoT on everyone, but I feel like the bloodied buff + slow + silence gives enough reason to hop around. You can instead give another one of those on hit heals that are so popular, because they synergy so well with attackspeed in general. Right there you have both EHP (for tankiness), that's based in ATTACK SPEED. Actually, if you've played tank warwick recently, that's closer to what you're aiming for.

Finally I'm wary about being able to knock multiple units back by 800 units. Knockback has a built in pseudo stun when dealing with thick walls. At the same time, the risk of pushing enemies through walls and away from allies and the such adds a difficult element to a champ I want to play in a mad frenzy with. A very small knockback can prove to have good utility, but very less risk of grief (think Maokai). I think the fact that you can apply this + silence to multiple champions is satisfying enough as a skill.

Edit: Although having no cooldown on either causes lots of chain problems. Imagine being endlessly headbutted into a wall by alistair, or being repeatedly popped back up in a 1v1 situation by maokai.

I say, give your skills cooldown bro. Not much, but just enough to make a pace for the champion. Your Q as well can have its (still rather short) cooldown reset when targetting champions to weaken the escape capability of your champion. As is I can see you jumping from, champ>to melee minion>to ranged minion in a broken escape path. The awesome bounce around teamfight would still apply.


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NickPham

Senior Member

05-16-2011

This champ is haunting my thoughts... Anyways changes I'm suggesting to you:

Passive: More bloodlust = more attackspeed (you mention it at the bottom, but not in the actual passive description).
-Also consider switching to a fury system, but without the 50+ fury bonuses. This however would remove the cooldown component of your resource system, making it entirely attack based.
Q- Give it a cooldown that resets only when targetting champs, removing some of its escape effectiveness. Have it dash you in front of the enemy champion.
W- Remove current, replace with on hit heal passive, like Warwick, which can be activated for a burst of fury to get the ball rolling on your skills. Should have decent CD, and grant at least 30 bloodlust (enough to harrass, then jump back to a minion).
E- Drastically shorten the knockback, removing the possibility of permastunning against a wall, and do something about the resulting issues of perma silence.
R- Activates granting a shield with a drastic percentage of your missing health, but reducing the damage you deal by by a drastic percent. The shield is permanent unless your health toggled off, destroyed, or you have not attacked anything for an extended period of time (preventing fountain abuse). Once the shield is gone, it has a very long cooldown.

The fury bit isn't essential, but I think that you should think about it.

The overall effect here is that the slow and disruption of Q & E are significant because of how often you are able to apply it on so many champions. Basically because Q puts you to the front of a champ, it is effective for chasing, as well as for repelling champs from your carries because the direction of your knockback will naturally be away from where they wanted to go . Fury boost aside, giving W a passive similar to Warwick's natural passive allows attack speed to be an EHP choice, so you can tank even though AS items no strong tanky choices (although wits end gives quite a bit of MR now). This also opens up a weakness, you have a champ with superior combat sustainability, which falls apart with too much hard cc.

The ultimate gets its own paragraph. It rewards buying tanky items which provide health, so that players have less reason to try to make lifesteal+damage the primary source of survivability, and offers a buffer against burst. At the same time it punishes any sort of AD build (giving it an AP ratio is fine). Giving it a set duration creates the alistair effect where they just ignore you for 8 seconds. At the same time the duration boost justifies making it much less overwhelming than other skills like it (Alistair, Trynd, Zilian). By giving the ult a toggle cross between taric and yommu's, the enemy team's incentive for attacking you while you have the shield up is no different than from if you were at half health, except that you hurt less.


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Katsuni

Senior Member

05-23-2011

Mmm fury COULD work, but I don't really like the fury mechanics that are currently in place. It could still be CALLED fury, and use the same bar, but I think adjusting how it affects her abilities is in order, as I felt it was very clunky on Reneketon and didn't feel really fleshed out right or natural for playstyle.

Personally, I still want to stick to the spammable spells; being able to target abilities quickly for single target, instead of just having AoE's that blow their load all in one go, is harder to utilize fully, but gives more control to a good player. Good players will be able to make far more use of such at appropriate times, instead of just autoattacking after they do their tanking thing.

I do think, however, that I shall be adjusting her ultimate somehow still, I just haven't decided how yet. I may actually make her knockback her ultimate instead, or perhaps her bleed, and introduce a new ability instead, so they all scale off her bleed properly.

This would allow her healing off the bleed to be more useful, and would make it more obviously important to get her ultimate to scale with it. It would also open another opportunity for yet another rapid cooldown ability, as I want her to have more choices when in combat as to whot she does and when, rather than just having a rather blatantly obvious choice of whot to use.

Alistar is a big problem with this I've noticed, as every single alistar I've fought on free week has seemed pretty good. AND IT'S FREE WEEK. It's really NOT that they're good, it's that they literally have no choice in their combo, to the point that a bot could play it, because there's so little difference between a good and bad alistar, because the attack order is so blatantly obvious and easy to pull off that there's no choice.

I'd like to avoid this situation on my own design now that I've identified it, and will need to make her chose more directly how to apply her abilities.

I'm also thinking of increasing the bloodthirst costs significantly, but also increasing her bloodthirst regeneration a lot as well. As in about 50 bloodthirst per ability use, so she literally can't spam all her abilities at once, but can rebuild her bloodthirst so fast she can keep doing stuff during a fight quickly.

This would essentially make her gain more like 20 bloodthirst per hit, and 5 per second, so she'd regain it rapidly, but wouldn't be able to blow every ability at once and would need to chose which to use when.

While I appreciate yeur own ideas, and they did give me pause to think about how to change her, I think I'll be going more along this route instead =3


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NickPham

Senior Member

05-24-2011

Thats cool. Thinking about your champion really got my juices running on my own champ.

The idea of a sustain based champ really excited me because I find playing Warwick in the late game to be immensely fun, because you are a godly tank, but only so long as you're attacking and spamming Q.

I also might try my hand at a fury/attackspeed based sustain tank considering that isn't what you're going for. Probably something that tunnel visions a carry, but has to switch targets to keep the sustain up though, because I don't think I can make better than this for a multitasking champ... except that's basically Irelia atm :P. Originality sure is hard.


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Amaroq Wolf

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Member

06-02-2011

I'd so love to see this. I just browsed this forum for the first time today, after reading your guide to making characters. The game also needs more anthropomorphic dog-like animals in my opinion. :P

I have one question though.

Your Decimation skill has the following text:
Cooldown: Enemies gain a buff that prevents them from being ferally charged again for 6 seconds (Creates a circular timer over their head, shaped like a claw)

Did you intend it to prevent you from doing another Feral Charge, or did you intend it to prevent you from doing another Decimation and mis-type your text? (I'm guessing the latter.)

EDIT: Bah, the Summoner's Code agreement box malfunctioned and I couldn't accept it until after I made this post.


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