Long Sword Change (Buff, or lower cost)

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Qbr12

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Senior Member

05-01-2011

Kaydence, Steelman is not trolling. He is simply presenting a logical argument which does not support your point of view. Just because he sees things differently than you doesn't mean he is trolling. The forums could use more people like him; people who present their arguments in a logical and easy to understand fashion without diverging into insults and baseless accusations.

An example of trolling you would be this: You're wrong because morde es #1 en brasil. huehuehuehuehue.


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Tha Steelman

Senior Member

05-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaydenceV2 View Post
All I did was compare what YOU SAID, and applied to to YOUR LOGIC, and I did the math FOR YOU!
I don't see any of my math aside from the math I did, and my logic didn't reach this conclusion at all. You really need to elaborate in order to make any sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaydenceV2 View Post
Either make the Long Swords stat be +15 or +18 attack damage, and increase its cost to 435gold.
Absolutely no math supporting this anywhere.
Here's some: You are suggesting an item with between 29 and 25 gold per point of AD.
That's even less balanced than everything else you've been suggesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaydenceV2 View Post
Reduce the price to 300gold, and keep the +10 AD stat the same.
I've already proven this unbalanced so many times, I don't know why I bother anymore.


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KaydenceV2

Senior Member

05-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha Steelman View Post
I don't see any of my math aside from the math I did, and my logic didn't reach this conclusion at all. You really need to elaborate in order to make any sense.



Absolutely no math supporting this anywhere.
Here's some: You are suggesting an item with between 29 and 25 gold per point of AD.
That's even less balanced than everything else you've been suggesting.



I've already proven this unbalanced so many times, I don't know why I bother anymore.
I did as you said with some modified examples to make it simpler for ppl to understand.

107.5gold per +5AD
if you want that to be more difficult to understand, then I'll put it your way exactly.

I'll do them both

29 gold per 1 point of AD (We'll want it to add up till it get's to +10AD, correct?) It's for the sake of the argument, humor me, let's see if I'm wrong or you are. Cause it's actually a math problem calculating that the problem is 29x10, which is

(What a shocker)
it's 290, so you're saying the gold cost should be 290 instead of 300, which my math was right.
With there being a 115gold difference between the items I've shown as examples, my math was accurate.


25 gold per point of AD
25x10 = 250
That's 250 gold for the Long Sword item.
Boy I'm glad Riot didn't hire you. :\

Edit: btw, you wanna know where I got that 115 from?

It was by COMPARING!
(btw the items I compared it to were the cost difference between cloth armor vs long sword, and the total differences of the AD items in my main post's examples, both examples came up with the 115gold differences).

What's 300+115=?
it's 415 (shocker I know)
So what was the item difference between my examples for the AD items?
What was it again? 115 you say?
Oh my what a "uh-oh, wait for it, wait for it, drum roll please..... (SHOCKER) Yes I know, it's a shock to me too that my math was right and yours was wrong.

God I'm sorry for being a **** but my god kid, you're annoying trolling me like this!


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Tha Steelman

Senior Member

05-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaydenceV2 View Post
29 gold per 1 point of AD (We'll want it to add up till it get's to +10AD, correct?) It's for the sake of the argument, humor me, let's see if I'm wrong or you are. Cause it's actually a math problem calculating that the problem is 29x10, which is

(What a shocker)
it's 290, so you're saying the gold cost should be 290 instead of 300, which my math was right.
With there being a 115gold difference between the items I've shown as examples, my math was accurate.


25 gold per point of AD
25x10 = 250
That's 250 gold for the Long Sword item.
All this means is that your math is internally consistent. In the real world, (of LoL anyway) a point of AD costs between between 36 and 42 gold; meaning that anything less than a 360 Long Sword would horribly break the game. Additionally, each pure AD item has a ratio improvement of 3 gold per point, making a 420 gold Long Sword balanced to the whole of AD items. That's 5 gold more expensive than it actually is. Be glad you have the discount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaydenceV2 View Post
Edit: btw, you wanna know where I got that 115 from?

It was by COMPARING!

What's 300+115=?
it's 415 (shocker I know)
So what was the item difference between my examples for the AD items?
What was it again? 115 you say?
Oh my what a "uh-oh, wait for it, wait for it, drum roll please..... (SHOCKER) Yes I know, it's a shock to me too that my math was right and yours was wrong.
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Sorry.


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KaydenceV2

Senior Member

05-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha Steelman View Post
All this means is that your math is internally consistent. In the real world, (of LoL anyway) a point of AD costs between between 36 and 42 gold; meaning that anything less than a 360 Long Sword would horribly break the game. Additionally, each pure AD item has a ratio improvement of 3 gold per point, making a 420 gold Long Sword balanced to the whole of AD items. That's 5 gold more expensive than it actually is. Be glad you have the discount.



I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Sorry.
36x10=360
(Too high for +10 AD)
42x10=420
(Too high for +10 AD, and you're 5gold over)

Sorry, try the math again.
(You may want to copy my examples instead).

Edit: Again, lowering the cost for +10AD to 300gold would not cause the game to break.
Did the game break when they lower the cost of the B.F. Sword?
No.
How much did the B.F. Sword cost before they re-worked it?
It was 1850
They lowered the cost by 200g
How much AD did it have before the fix?
it had 50AD

How much does the B.F. Sword have now?
45AD
So in the world of LoL, +5AD is actually 200gold
That adds up to 400g if we wanted +5AD to add up to +10AD
Which I consider to be NOT a discount for spending 15gold more for a +10AD item that's supposed to cost 400g.

My math is right, yours is wrong, there's a HUGE difference in consistency between yours and my math, mine is and has been ALWAYS right!


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Tha Steelman

Senior Member

05-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaydenceV2 View Post
36x10=360
(Too high for +10 AD)
42x10=420
(Too high for +10 AD, and you're 5gold over)

Sorry, try the math again.
(You may want to copy my examples instead).
I rounded 41.5 to 42 way back when just to make things easier. That's not a problem. Also, how is the cheapest gold per point ratio available in the game "too high" when multiplied by 10?

Counter-Edit Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaydenceV2 View Post
Edit: Again, lowering the cost for +10AD to 300gold would not cause the game to break.
Did the game break when they lower the cost of the B.F. Sword?
No.
How much did the B.F. Sword cost before they re-worked it?
It was 1850
They lowered the cost by 200g
How much AD did it have before the fix?
it had 50AD

How much does the B.F. Sword have now?
45AD
So in the world of LoL, +5AD is actually 200gold
That adds up to 400g if we wanted +5AD to add up to +10AD
Which I consider to be NOT a discount for spending 15gold more for a +10AD item that's supposed to cost 400g.
The pre-fix B. F. Sword had a ratio of 37, which is slightly higher than it's new ratio, but still significantly higher than what you are suggesting.

You wanted a 300 gold item with 10 AD? That's like a 1600 gold B. F. Sword which gives 53 AD, clearly not what Riot had in mind when they reduced both the cost and power at the same time, keeping the old ratio relatively in tact.


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Qbr12

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

05-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaydenceV2 View Post
I did as you said with some modified examples to make it simpler for ppl to understand.

107.5gold per +5AD
if you want that to be more difficult to understand, then I'll put it your way exactly.

I'll do them both

29 gold per 1 point of AD (We'll want it to add up till it get's to +10AD, correct?) It's for the sake of the argument, humor me, let's see if I'm wrong or you are. Cause it's actually a math problem calculating that the problem is 29x10, which is

(What a shocker)
it's 290, so you're saying the gold cost should be 290 instead of 300, which my math was right.
With there being a 115gold difference between the items I've shown as examples, my math was accurate.


25 gold per point of AD
25x10 = 250
That's 250 gold for the Long Sword item.
Boy I'm glad Riot didn't hire you. :\
Actually, the costs per point of AD are as follows:
LongSword-10AD-415gold-41.5gold/AD
Pickaxe-25AD-975gold-39gold/AD
BF sword-45AD-1650gold-36.666gold/AD

This shows that as the items get larger the cost per AD gets smaller (a bulk purchase discount, if you will)

If an item were to be priced at 300 gold and give only AD the pattern shows that it should give less than 7.2289 (rounded) AD. Thats 300 divided by 41.5 (the price for the smallest amount of AD). The amount should be less than that because as the pattern goes, the price per gold increases as the amount of AD given decreases.

Attached is a graph to better illustrate my point. As the graph shows, the amount of AD an item costing 300 gold and giving only AD should give is around 6-7. 300 divided by 6.5 (i split the difference for easier math) is 46.1538 (rounded). This number follows the patter shown above.
__________________
to summarize the information given above, an AD item costing 300 gold should give 6.5 AD. Not 10.

Edit: old graph is old. I edited an old graph and it had some old numbers in it. Ill fix the graph in a sec, but the number changes aren't that severe and the numbers should stay the same within a range of 2-5.

Edit2: new graph is up. It falls closer to 7 seven this time. With the numbers fixed, we get 300 divided by 7 giving you 42.8571 (rounded). This still follows the pattern shown above. The 300 gold pure AD item should actually give you 7 AD.


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KaydenceV2

Senior Member

05-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha Steelman View Post
I rounded 41.5 to 42 way back when just to make things easier. That's not a problem. Also, how is the cheapest gold per point ratio available in the game "too high" when multiplied by 10?
Because it doesn't add up to 300gold for a +10AD item, that's how.

Going over even 1 extra gold, which is 301 for the sake of the argument, is too high!

Amplifiying Tome, need to be nerfed in order to compensate for the gold cost for how much AP it has, so that it'd be in the same boat as the Long Sword.


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KaydenceV2

Senior Member

05-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qbr12 View Post
Actually, the costs per point of AD are as follows:
LongSword-10AD-415gold-41.5gold/AD
Pickaxe-25AD-975gold-39gold/AD
BF sword-50AD-1650gold-33gold/AD

This shows that as the items get larger the cost per AD gets smaller (a bulk purchase discount, if you will)

If an item were to be priced at 300 gold and give only AD the pattern shows that it should give less than 7.2289 (rounded) AD. Thats 300 divided by 41.5 (the price for the smallest amount of AD). The amount should be less than that because as the pattern goes, the price per gold increases as the amount of AD given decreases.

Attached is a graph to better illustrate my point. As the graph shows, the amount of AD an item costing 300 gold and giving only AD should give is around 6-7. 300 divided by 6.5 (i split the difference for easier math) is 46.1538 (rounded). This number follows the patter shown above.
__________________
to summarize the information given above, an AD item costing 300 gold should give 6.5 AD. Not 10.
There, NOW your math is correct in getting somewhere.

So, let's see, if you can do math that would cause the total of +10AD to add up to 300gold.

You wanna know the reason why I posted this thread? It's because I'm hoping Riot will see it and buff the Long Sword to put it on par with Amplifying Tome, making up for how much it cost's. +10AD is not fair compared to those who get a +20AP boost.

Edit: Otherwise they need to either nerf Amplifying Tome so that it's not as good of a starter item investment as it is now, just like the Long Sword is, or, they need to buff Doran's Ring's +15AP to give +20-25AP.


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KaydenceV2

Senior Member

05-01-2011

Keep in mind though if they decide to buff Doran's Ring's AP, I'll be demanding that they buff the +10AD on the Doran's Blade item! :\