[GUIDE] - Mundo - How did u kill me so fast!??!??!!

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Eat dat chammich

Senior Member

03-03-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperness View Post
Taking crit chance over armor pen just means you like to get lucky. There's no denying the math, expected DPS is higher with Armor pen than crit chance. Other than that, nice guide.
Math is great. I have a college degree in math. But calculations such as "max dps" are extremely narrowly focused. When you decide between armor pen and crit you need to decide which will make a bigger difference in the situations you actually find yourself in. If your contact with the target is limited then a crit could mean the difference between a game breaking ace or a teamfight win where armor pen could not have had the same effect. If you expect to be able to stay on the target for a decent amount of time (meaning they stay alive and you stay on them) then armor pen is the clear winner.

That said, Mundo's skill set in addition to Merc/Cleanse mean you can stay on your target extremely well. I would consider armor pen very strong for him.

Afterthought: Does his Cleaver do physical damage? Armor pen would get another notch in its belt if it does.


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

03-03-2010

two phantom dancers get you silly amounts of crit anyway. Armor pen makes everything hurt more ('sides Cleaver, that's magic for some reason)


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daNNux

Senior Member

03-03-2010

Actually one of the better Mundo builds i have seen in a long time. On the weak side agaisnt magic damage though so personally id pick MR@18 as my blue runes.

But othewise this is a really nice build and ill try it out myself later.


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DarklordJoseph

The Council

03-03-2010

You put together a good guide. Mundo is one of my best characters.
But just a couple of things I would do different.
You dont need starks, its a support item definatly not a bad item, but if your gonna carry
i would go malady, cheaper and you deal more damage.

Also Mundo makes a really good tank, because of his cc reduction and his life regen ult.
Getting frozen mallet, warmogs, Phantom dancer, Spirit visage is a great tank build. Your ult heals for more, and you tank more stuns making your CC reduction better.

DPS mundo is good too. I usually get sorcerers shoes along with magic pen and CD reduction runes. Your clever damage is almost doubled. with a 3 second cooldown it
does more extra damage then early crits.

Also cleanse isnt needed at all, its far from effective when you have 80% cc reduction.
I usually go Ghost and heal, so you can initiate and escape earier. Exast is good too.

Although it depends on what you need for your game, Mundo can play many rolls.
Sounds like you play a very good DPS mundo.


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ALCie

Senior Member

03-03-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eat dat chammich View Post
Math is great. I have a college degree in math. But calculations such as "max dps" are extremely narrowly focused. When you decide between armor pen and crit you need to decide which will make a bigger difference in the situations you actually find yourself in. If your contact with the target is limited then a crit could mean the difference between a game breaking ace or a teamfight win where armor pen could not have had the same effect. If you expect to be able to stay on the target for a decent amount of time (meaning they stay alive and you stay on them) then armor pen is the clear winner.

That said, Mundo's skill set in addition to Merc/Cleanse mean you can stay on your target extremely well. I would consider armor pen very strong for him.

Afterthought: Does his Cleaver do physical damage? Armor pen would get another notch in its belt if it does.
I think it may be the other way around. If you expect to keep hitting them then attack speed or crit chance are better. If you can only get off 1 or two hits then armor penetration is better.

For the sake of argument lets say attack speed, crit chance and armor penetration give you the same benefit in DPS. If you have a 20% chance to crit then you will need 5 attacks to reliably get one crit, giving you 6 attacks in the time of 5 (likewise argument for attack speed). If you have armor penetration each attack will do a fraction more damage, summing up to the same as critical over 5 attacks, but it comes in equal bursts. So given that you will only get one attack off, many prefer to leave chance out of it.

I think in this build, since you have crazy movement speed, you can expect to get multiple hits off making crit chance/attack speed king.


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Grovel

Senior Member

03-03-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarklordJoseph View Post
Also Mundo makes a really good tank, because of his cc reduction and his life regen ult.
Getting frozen mallet, warmogs, Phantom dancer, Spirit visage is a great tank build. Your ult heals for more, and you tank more stuns making your CC reduction better.
Side question, what order do you take these?

Spirit visage > Phantom > Warmogs > Mallet?

or do you go tanky first with Warmogs > Mallet and then finish with Visage and Damage?


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Eat dat chammich

Senior Member

03-03-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALCie View Post
I think it may be the other way around. If you expect to keep hitting them then attack speed or crit chance are better. If you can only get off 1 or two hits then armor penetration is better.

For the sake of argument lets say attack speed, crit chance and armor penetration give you the same benefit in DPS. If you have a 20% chance to crit then you will need 5 attacks to reliably get one crit, giving you 6 attacks in the time of 5 (likewise argument for attack speed). If you have armor penetration each attack will do a fraction more damage, summing up to the same as critical over 5 attacks, but it comes in equal bursts. So given that you will only get one attack off, many prefer to leave chance out of it.

I think in this build, since you have crazy movement speed, you can expect to get multiple hits off making crit chance/attack speed king.

My experience is that if the other team has much ranged and cc a melee character will only get 1-2 auto attacks and one skill off while in contact with an enemy unless supported by a strong slow or stun. If this can be expected then one out of eight times you come in contact with a champion you will crit on both attacks and DEVESTATE that opponent. But with armor pen 8 out of 8 times you will do good damage but never enough to put true fear into them (usually felt while watching a grey screen).

A champion that turns to run because you crit the first half of their life away is fodder for your team. They run instead of popping those nasty nukes that would have eliminated one of your friends and even if they get away you just push a tower down in their absence.

To be honest I'm a big sucker for consistency and I'm mostly just trying to bring out the strong sides of both options.


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Stope

Member

03-03-2010

Unreliable damage aids in getting early kills. When it succeeds (dealing big damage), your opponent doesn't expect it, and this can cause you to win.

Theres other benefits to hitting harder rather than faster, including the fact that you may only be harassing with a single swing and lingering around for another swing means minions/enemies have more time to beat on you. Better just to get it done in one hit. You may also get hit by a cc effect, in which even a longer delay on your following attack will still have refreshed.

There is also psychological factors such as: "HOLY SHIET YOU DO HURTS!" giving you lane dominance.


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ObjectiveTruth

Senior Member

03-03-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stope View Post
Unreliable damage aids in getting early kills. When it succeeds (dealing big damage), your opponent doesn't expect it, and this can cause you to win.

Theres other benefits to hitting harder rather than faster, including the fact that you may only be harassing with a single swing and lingering around for another swing means minions/enemies have more time to beat on you. Better just to get it done in one hit. You may also get hit by a cc effect, in which even a longer delay on your following attack will still have refreshed.

There is also psychological factors such as: "HOLY SHIET YOU DO HURTS!" giving you lane dominance.
This is often what i go for. Cause i find at the start you can only really hit them maybe 2-3 times before they run. And if one of those is crit then you have just gained lane dominance which is worth alot more than the extra damage would really do.

I did however try the sorc boots, and magic pen and found that the cleaver really hurts. I can see how it is useful for a tank mundo build but for dps mundo it doesn't work as well.

I'm thinking of even changing spirate visage to go straight for phantom dancer, sometimes i find this build can get bogged down from it.

I'm gonna have to test it out.


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Econael

Junior Member

03-03-2010

I got tired of tanking with mundo and I haven't even played that much ^^
It does work, I even wrote a guide about it, but this build seems like more fun. I'll try it right away


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