[GUIDE] Melee Kassadin - AKA Inyourfaceagainadin, AKA Hashashadin

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schleppy

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Senior Member

03-08-2010

I've played a build similar to this, only getting a mejai's first and if gold flow allows getting a bloodthirster instead of the Starks. A 20 stack Mejai's along with a triforce is pretty much an auto-win gear set-up for Kass. It's quite a different play style then the normal AP Kass to try him as mostly melee, but if you can adapt your play style correctly it can be quite devastating.


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Squee Goblin Nabob

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Senior Member

03-08-2010

at 20 stacks of soulstealer any build is going to own. You're going to be rifting for so much as it is you don't even need to attack. A (R + Q + E) is going to be in the 900 dmg range without any other items. Not to mention that along with the gold from assists/kills from getting 20 stacks is going to set you so far and beyond the rest of the enemy team...


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Tachyon speed

Junior Member

03-09-2010

The good thing about meija and Kass is that Kass (almost) never dies. Since he can riftwalk in and out as much as he wants (and escape anyone) Kass can reach a very high number of stacks even if he only gets assists. (Doesnt work well with melee Kass since you will be melee and much more vulnerable, AP Kass survivability comes from his positionning) I only have one comment about your build: SQUISHY! 300 health from triforce and thats it? (and a 30 magic resist from boots) During teamfights you are going down so fast! Especially since you are going melee. If you focus on more survivability your damage output will go down and end up as a tank/dps/caster hybrid. Your basic build cost a lot btw, im dont think you will have the time/gold to build much more.


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tehmonk

Member

03-09-2010

I really can't NOT say anything negative about this guide. The big problem I have with AD kassadins is that they ignore the relatively high AP scaling of his skills and their spammability. This coupled with the obligatory lich bane build is just too effective to forego for the sake of getting bigger swings on a hero that's made to hit hard and fast. Kass in general, whether he be AD or AP needs to be able to finish the job with one quick burst because he's just way too soft otherwise. Your build in particular makes for an extremely soft kassadin who's going to be prone to focus-fire in any group fight and only really viable for early-mid game and relying on ganks to get ahead quickly. I mean if you're going to go for this type of build on a hero like kass you're building a katarina clone that'd be more effective on her anyway.

sorry to bash your build, but i've been there done that with kass, and it's ap all the way.


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inept

Member

03-09-2010

stopped reading at "must take solo mid"

any character with any build can do well if they start solo mid...you are at a significant farming/level advantage. if your opponent cant blue pill a melee character before level 6 they are bad and they should feel bad.


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Ebonclaw

Senior Member

03-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachyon speed View Post
AP Kass survivability comes from his positionning) I only have one comment about your build: SQUISHY! 300 health from triforce and thats it? (and a 30 magic resist from boots) During teamfights you are going down so fast! Especially since you are going melee ... Your basic build cost a lot btw, im dont think you will have the time/gold to build much more.
Well that's what I was saying, though. By the time you finish Triforce and Stark's, the game is usually all but over. Occasionally I actually get into the 4th gear slot, but not too often (well I don't play him too often lately, because my win rate is so high, my Kassadin play is obviously of a higher bracket than that of other characters. So, if I don't wish to inflate my ELO to seriously/highly competitive ranges where I can't enjoy the characters I am not as good with, then I can only play the characters I am not as good with. This isn't to say that I am not playing at a relatively high ELO. I face some recognizably skilled players fairly often, and it is obvious to me that I am on the threshold of where 'LoL is srs bsns', and I prefer to enjoy the game in the mid-ELO ranges instead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tehmonk View Post
I really can't NOT say anything negative about this guide. The big problem I have with AD kassadins is that they ignore the relatively high AP scaling of his skills and their spammability. This coupled with the obligatory lich bane build is just too effective to forego for the sake of getting bigger swings on a hero that's made to hit hard and fast. Kass in general, whether he be AD or AP needs to be able to finish the job with one quick burst because he's just way too soft otherwise. Your build in particular makes for an extremely soft kassadin who's going to be prone to focus-fire in any group fight and only really viable for early-mid game and relying on ganks to get ahead quickly. I mean if you're going to go for this type of build on a hero like kass you're building a katarina clone that'd be more effective on her anyway.
Kat is my 3rd most played, actually. I've pulled off some crazy stuff with her, and yes, the overall playstyle is quite similar. However, I DO build Kat with much more survivability than most players do, and that highlights the actual difference in mobility - the fact that 99% of the time, Kassadin has complete control over dictating where and when an engagement occurs. Just like any carry, melee Kass must hold back on his entry into the 5v5 fray. He retains some skirmish/harass potential in the late game, even without AP gear, but is able to rapidly make up the difference on the burst, with very good sustained DPS.

The problem with your argument, is that yes, in ~230 games with Kass, I have died MANY times due to Rifting impulsively, joining a fight too early, or getting stunned at the wrong time. I've lost numerous matches due to doing those things repeatedly. But with practice, and with a close eye on what separates a good gank, a good initiate, and a good 5v5 battle entry from the bad, melee Kass becomes an extreme terror. He is an assassin who you can't shut down with Oracles. He is the one who disallows the enemy team's plan from coming to fruition. He is the anti-secret-weapon, the one who surgically removes the enemy Twitch/Eve/Kat etc from the equation. And you can argue this all you want, but he becomes this incredible presence by totally dominating the enemy team for the entire match.


Quote:
Originally Posted by inept View Post
stopped reading at "must take solo mid"

any character with any build can do well if they start solo mid...you are at a significant farming/level advantage. if your opponent cant blue pill a melee character before level 6 they are bad and they should feel bad.
Well, I think you're trolling, but I'm going to bite. First, your assertion is entirely false. Just to make this silly, I'll propose that, say, a Malphite AP build is not appropriate for solo mid. But in reality, MANY characters simply lack the skill sets necessary to flourish in solo mid, especially against the array of enemy champs you are most likely to face.

Now, the specific issue that I've faced with Kassadin, as a melee build, is that while in 1v1 you have extreme control over skirmishes and your rate of damage taken vs damage inflicted, in the side lanes you are likely to be focused on by both enemies, and never allowed in melee range. Now, I honestly can't wrap my head around how Kassadin is supposed to be effective AT ALL unless he is fed. I simply don't see Kass being able to last hit, or to farm, or do anything in the early levels, except for hope that he gets a couple of kills so he can buy Mejai's - so that he can hope he continues to rack up kills. But what does AP Kass do in the early levels? He harasses opponents with spells that hit for just about the same damage as my melee Kass' spells do (you're last hitting like.... nothing, so how is that AP looking at say, 6th level?), but really is waiting for his lane partner to initiate, so he can snipe the KB.

The difference is, when I solo mid, 90% of the time by level 4 I have asserted my dominance. Typically at this point, I am free farming minions, and any time my opponent comes near enough, I drop a 200 damage Sphere on them. Again, I level that before Pulse, because it does not need to be charged (maybe Pulse IS better on side lanes, because you DO have 4 people to charge it for you, hmmm), because it has twice the range of Pulse, and because when that silence hits, your opponent -cannot retaliate with abilities-, meaning you take a 50hp auto attack in return, maybe.

And as to your last argument, I am not sure where in this guide (sounds like you have some T0ggle angst in you, let it all out, my friend) I stated that I was relying on them being weak and ready to keel over at level 6. The only point that I DID make, was that AT level 6, you have extreme burst capability, and can easily kill an enemy when they think they have enough HP to act with confidence. Most people WILL stick around at 50% HP, and you can kill them if they do.

Honestly, I'm not going to be able to spew words at you that will make you able to just dominate mid right from the get go, especially if you're out of newbie island and what not. The purpose of the guide is to give you a starting point, to help flatten out the learning curve, and enable you to look like you're not a total idiot while you learn this playstyle. In fact, I should probably edit this into the first post, but MOST people really should be either trying this early in their career, or on a newish account, first. Or a couple practice games, just to get basic tactics worked out. The point being, if you haven't yet figured out that -no guide here- is any kind of magic bullet that will make you seem totally pro with 1 or 2 games to try it out (IF there is, that champ is currently OP, or you are in some low low ELO, seriously), then there is nothing I can tell you that will elevate your success with this particular champ and build, or likely any other, for that matter.


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Ebonclaw

Senior Member

03-09-2010

Oh this reminds me. In general, I am drawn to kind of quirky builds, and nonstandard roles for champs, partly to see if I can make them work, and partly because you end up with a playstyle that others find anomolous, and so don't always react appropriately to, giving you the upper hand.

I'll list some of the champs I have been messing around with, and the varying builds I have tried with them, and if anyone here would like me to focus on one and work the kinks out so I can write up a guide, maybe that can be arranged.

Amumu - Tank, AP, AD, Support (he really can be built for any style, with acceptable results, he is HARD to get started any way you play him though, which is the real bugger about him, IMO)

Fiddle - full support/survivability build (I know he can do well as AP, but I can't pull it off, however I can render him unkillable, and thus very scary in 5v5 fights)

Katarina - survivability/brawler build (this is my most played/tested build/style after melee Kass, I should probably get some more current patch games under my belt and just write this one, it rocks)

Jax - dervish build (I was good with Jax before his recent buff, though my build benefits from the HP passive less than pure AD or AP based builds - I really wanted to write a guide after the patch, but then 12 other people did, and I lost interest, though my take on the champ has not been represented in any of the guides I looked at)

Evelynn - AD build (it can be shown that late game, an AP Eve can kill someone faster, but my AD playstyle feels quite viable, and gives huge lifesteal and high run speed in exchange for the peak burst) ALSO, I'm dying to try a Tank Eve build, I've got a solid concept, I just can't figure out how to bridge from the first few (basically naked ganks), to keeping income rolling while buying tank gear - all I know for sure, is with a good build, she should be one of the scariest tanks/initiators in the game

Nunu - carry build, focusing on Blood Boil, to keep the buff on you and your lane partner constantly, for heavy pushing, and strong 2v2 combat performance - I've only done this a few times, and it worked alright, I think it has potential, with more practice

Malphite - initiator build, this is something that works out quite well for me on Malph, giving him what I feel is the optimal blend of his tank-ishness, and his carry-ability, sharing some things in common with the Kat build/style, but of course applied to an entirely different skillset and mindset

Ryze - CD, AP, survivability, all 3 of those work well for Ryze - have you ever seen a HYBRID Ryze? I played a few matches getting Guinsoo's Rageblade as his first item (start with Meki, then get basic boots, but then the RB), getting Nashor's next, and then grabbing Lichbane (throw in a Vampiric Sceptre after RB, probably) to capitalize on his strong base damages (with ulti), by adding mediocre sustained damage (with his newly buffed attack range, it's nice), to keep RB stacks up to fuel successive spellcasts.... I LOVE this build, but it does have 2 major problems - the first being that regardless of build, and regardless of your ACTUAL burst damage, you generally get focused immediately, because you are Ryze..... the second being, whether you are doing well or not, people will give you a lot of **** for the RB (god forbid you didn't have the extra 400g yet, so you have to run around with a Pickaxe in your gear!), but if your team loses the match (all things considered, ~50% chance, right?) you will really hear about it......


Anyway, if you're really here to learn about melee Kass, and you are interested in the non-standard play that he provides, those are some I could work on, to help enrich the community, and broaden awareness of other options in playstyle. Also, if I didn't list someone you'd like to see, mention it here, we'll see what we can come up with. <3


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Dahras

Senior Member

03-09-2010

Hmm.. The build seems cool....

I actually am glad someone has posted an AD Kass guide, I was getting bored of AP guide number 10000000 all violently agreeing that essentially you need 1 item with health on it and a **** ton of AP/mana.


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Ebonclaw

Senior Member

03-10-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by KatsuriX View Post
I was wondering if you were over going to post a guide for your melee build :P. And yes, this does work. Its great fun to be called "baddie" for going melee kass, then finishing the game 12-2-10. Just wanted to post and +1, good guide ^-^.
Thanks for the support,we had some fun games. I'm still waiting for some of the other hundreds of people who have seen what I do this build, to step forward and silence the trolls with their testimonials.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahras View Post
I actually am glad someone has posted an AD Kass guide, I was getting bored of AP guide number 10000000 all violently agreeing that essentially you need 1 item with health on it and a **** ton of AP/mana.
I've seen several people ask about this, and personally I think it's funny that DPS Janna gains more attention. Sure, she is a ridiculously annoying early laner, but her viability dissipates over the course of the match. Even if you fall behind a bit, melee Kass can be quite effective, just perhaps not the Johnny Rambo he is if you feed him properly.


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SalDarkSeed

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Member

03-10-2010

it sounds really nice im gonna have to give it a try but i still think ill like the riftwalk death more :O but thats me ;D
i love riftwalking down the lane to my enemy then on him and him be like O_o;; wtf hit me?


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