[GUIDE] Melee Kassadin - AKA Inyourfaceagainadin, AKA Hashashadin

1234567 ... 12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

PineappleThis

Senior Member

02-28-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by RHINO Mk II View Post
So, when I saw this thread I decided to modify it and build a kass with 5 wits end and boots. Unfortunately the mana drain doesn't stack. However, I did end up with a crazy double bloodthirster double phantom infi edge build. 1.9 attack speed, 1000+ dmg crits, 50% lifesteal, and each hit gives you 10% of the enemy's mana, meaning more riftwalks

Lol, ANY champion would dominate with those items I don't care who it is. But kass cannot farm that well and thats a fact.

So if you did indeed get those items on a Kassadin then kupos to you, but it'll be one of the few times it happens. (unless you play practices games, then it happens all the time).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ebonclaw

Senior Member

02-28-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydroniums View Post
I stopped reading your guie when I read Annie is afraid of no one. As someone who's played many games as both kassadin and annie, I must disagree. Annie is afraid of one person, and that's AP Kassadin. If Kassadin loses the role of making every person in the game **** their pants by going as melee, I have to decline.
Well, when I am ganking, well over half of my kills are me Rifting and bursting on someone's face, and then proceeding to cut them down as they try to run. If that isn't fear, I don't know what is. Rarely will anyone stand to fight unless they have a friend nearby, and more often than not if they do, I still kill them and make it safely away.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RHINO Mk II View Post
So, when I saw this thread I decided to modify it and build a kass with 5 wits end and boots. Unfortunately the mana drain doesn't stack. However, I did end up with a crazy double bloodthirster double phantom infi edge build. 1.9 attack speed, 1000+ dmg crits, 50% lifesteal, and each hit gives you 10% of the enemy's mana, meaning more riftwalks
I do think Wit's End is a poor choice, overall. One game I ended up with Malady, Stark's, and a maxed Bloodthirster. I was tanking the 2 Nexus towers while killing people who desperately dove at me. That's a rare occurrence though, both to have that kind of gear, and to find yourself in a position that you can pull off stunts like that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kijik View Post
RHINO you realize that build isn't realistic, right?
If gold wasn't an object, a lot of the guides on this forum would be worth nothing.
Point of a guide's item section is to list a realistic item build.
Which I hope that I've done. It actually annoys me when people list a full item build. This isn't your dream shopping cart on some online store, think of it more like getting up in the morning and getting dressed. You get some shoes, pants, a shirt.... then you see what the weather is like before you pick a hat, or a jacket, or sunglasses, etc. :P


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aethewn View Post
Liked your guide very very much!
Thanks!
One minor change that can be made, I think, is taking doran's ring instead of meki at the start. It's like free HP with almost the same mana regen.
You're welcome! And I've thought about Doran's, it would add a few damage to each Sphere you throw, as well. Problem is, you only get 1 HP pot then, and all Doran's items sell for only 50%, rather than the 70% you get from selling the Meki. But I'm sure it could be a viable start, just not a change I plan to make in my own play.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PineappleThis View Post
But kass cannot farm that well and thats a fact.
Well no, it's nonsense. In fact, when you state it that way, it's more like propaganda. AP Kass isn't the greatest farmer, sure. Melee Kass is a super farmer, due to your extreme mobility allowing you to get on target so fast, lifesteal, and the ability to R or Q to proc your Sheen/Triforce. Plus you're one of the few characters that can realistically risk stealing Lizard/Golem from the enemy side of the map. Both camps have nice walls to Rift over if anyone shows up to stop your party. And 1 person running into you in a jungle, is often a free kill for you anyway


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ebonclaw

Senior Member

02-28-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Sand View Post
I would suggest getting a sapphire crystal over meki at the start since you can build it into sheen later. I start off with sapphire and mana regen quints and yellows with absolutely no mana problems. I think statistically sapphire would be pretty much the same in the end as meki for Kassadin up to level 4 or 5. However the runes could make a big difference in having a sapphire crystal start work.
I was just thinking about this again, and thought I would explain. There are several champs that I would certainly take the Sapphire first, for the very reason that you state. BUT, for those champs I want to build that Sapphire into something ASAP. Look at it this way, the Meki regenerates that 200 mana just about 2.5 minutes. If you will be out for longer than that before returning to the fountain, then the Meki is more mana - since I am often out for 8-10 minutes after minion spawn, that's an additional 500+ mana from the Meki, over the Sapphire. Since I want to spend ~3000g before the Sapphire is useful to me to upgrade, and the additional regen allows me to either A) get additional player kill(s), and/or B) harass even more aggressively, thus buying myself more last hit chances on minions, I think that the item pays for itself several times over.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RHINO Mk II

Senior Member

02-28-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by PineappleThis View Post
Lol, ANY champion would dominate with those items I don't care who it is. But kass cannot farm that well and thats a fact.

So if you did indeed get those items on a Kassadin then kupos to you, but it'll be one of the few times it happens. (unless you play practices games, then it happens all the time).
AHA, but can any champion look like a badass darth vader while stomping people with those items?

But yeah, the game lasted far too long. When I realized that wit's end stacking wasn't gonna work I just went for mass attack speed, damage, and crits.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hydroniums

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

02-28-2010

I feel different characters/builds have to be judged by what they bring to a teamfight. I haven't tried AD kassadin, I'll freely admit that right now. However, if I had to guess, he doesn't bring as much to a teamfight, because Kassadin is one of the few champs that can wreck people with aoe (ult and FP), and still be able to easily escape. On top of that, he can completely shut down their carry without even being the carry on his team. A good kassadin whose at a lower level than their carry, has less items, etc. can still **** all over annie or twitch or whoever else when they pop out.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you're saying, but when I play kassadin I don't need to take middle lane and can still dominate their carry 1v1 or in a teamfight scenario. If AD Kassadin can't do this, he's lost utility in a teamfight for pushing/farming ability. I personally do not believe that is worth it. This isn't even mentioning the aoe damage AP Kassadin can do, which if fed, can be half of all of their squishies health, as he can easily get to them and then **** all over them. Again, I'm just not sure AD Kassadin can bring this kind of teamfight presence, which is really what it takes to win games.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ebonclaw

Senior Member

02-28-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydroniums View Post
I feel different characters/builds have to be judged by what they bring to a teamfight. I haven't tried AD kassadin, I'll freely admit that right now. However, if I had to guess, he doesn't bring as much to a teamfight, because Kassadin is one of the few champs that can wreck people with aoe (ult and FP), and still be able to easily escape.
Not true. Against a solid enemy team, it's suicide in most cases for even a melee Kass (let's clarify, he is not AD, he's more hybrid, with an early emphases on RS and AS), even with his slightly enhanced survivability. In 5v5 fights, AP Kass is little more than a -finisher-. He gets huge scores, because he waits for everyone to be engaged, and then picks on the person who is hurt the worst. He has strong nukes, but he doesn't kill people, he just finishes them off.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydroniums View Post
On top of that, he can completely shut down their carry without even being the carry on his team. A good kassadin whose at a lower level than their carry, has less items, etc. can still **** all over annie or twitch or whoever else when they pop out.
I'm not sure if this is an exaggeration, or a fabrication. Let's look at the point in the game I was describing in the guide, level 13 with Treads, Starks, and Triforce. I've spent 1200 + 2600 + 4070g, for a total of 7870g in items. If we say you would have 10 stacks on a Mejai's (1235) with comparable gameplay, and an RoA with 5 minutes of growth so far (bought Mejai's first, right? and need the RoA for staying power?)(3035g) and Treads (1200g), that leaves 2400g, I'll just simplify (because builds could vary widely from there) and assume 2 Wands on your way saving up for Zhonya's. This gives you a total of 250AP. So your Sphere is hitting for 455, Pulse for 500, and Riftwalk for 200. You just '****' on them for 1155, you can do a 300 damage Riftwalk in a few seconds, you can Pulse again AFTER they burst on YOU to get your charges, and you can Sphere again.... in awhile. If you both started at full HP, they are going to kill you, or force you to Rift away when it pops back up. Melee Kass is going to do ~700 with the spell burst, get a Triforce proc, be Void Stone empowered, and rapidly chopping the rest of the opponents HP away. He HAS the drawback of needing to stay in melee range, but for this, has strong sustained DPS after his burst.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydroniums View Post
Perhaps I misunderstood what you're saying, but when I play kassadin I don't need to take middle lane and can still dominate their carry 1v1 or in a teamfight scenario.
Again, not entirely true. First, I never said melee Kass can't run in a side lane, only that I've never made it work. Maybe it's my hyper aggressive playstyle that needs Riftwalk ASAP to keep me out of trouble, I'm not sure. But again, you're obscuring truths. First, let me explain. The point you make about an AP Kass dominating with less gear, actually supports my gameplay - it illustrates how Kass has very respectible spell damage even without AP gear. I've been cursed at by people before, who think it's unfair I nuke as hard as I seem to, and still own them in melee range. But again, it comes to playstyle - AP Kass 'dominates late game' because even with minimal gear, a 'Sniperdin' archetype will start grabbing KBs rapidly when team fights start, and from there quickly gain the cash to fill out their gearset. I have seen it time and time again. Don't get me wrong, as Kass or Jax or someone else highly mobile, I myself often get KBs on enemies I hardly touched, whether someone else might have finished them or not. But most AP Kass players, to continue to build strength (AP Kass is a weak farmer, someone once told me), they must consistently steal KBs. So you're left with, Kassadin is 'useful' for Silence, Slow, AOE, etc even with poor gear, Kassadin is a beast if he carries by Rifting on every nearly dead opponent, and melee Kass can recover from a slow start by doing what AP Kass has trouble with - farming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydroniums View Post
If AD Kassadin can't do this, he's lost utility in a teamfight for pushing/farming ability. I personally do not believe that is worth it. This isn't even mentioning the aoe damage AP Kassadin can do, which if fed, can be half of all of their squishies health, as he can easily get to them and then **** all over them. Again, I'm just not sure AD Kassadin can bring this kind of teamfight presence, which is really what it takes to win games.
In order to AOE for ~1000+ (only Pulse and Rift are AOE) you need at least 500 AP. By the time you GET 500 AP, melee Kass is a juggernaut, with a very potent gearset as well. His AOE isn't as strong, but he cuts people down 1 at a time with ruthless efficiency. In late game, with your 500AP Kass, and my built melee Kass, you'll spread more damage around in burst, but I will put more imminent hurt on their carries, and systematically dismantle their team.

<3


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Empyron

Senior Member

03-01-2010

I'm confused how this item set is good end game... I can see Stark's and TF, but it doesn't seem like it would do that much damage. The only boost you have is from the TF proc and the +20 damage it has.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ebonclaw

Senior Member

03-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empyron View Post
I'm confused how this item set is good end game... I can see Stark's and TF, but it doesn't seem like it would do that much damage. The only boost you have is from the TF proc and the +20 damage it has.
I think you skimmed a bit too fast. :P I was saying generally I will have those complete around level 13, and the game will be about ending. So, it's not a 'late game' build, you would realistically have another 5-6000g at least to spend by level 18 if you're killing and farming as you should.

Remember though, with Kass' passive and just those 2 items, you will be nearing 2.0 AS in most combat situations, and part of the beauty of all of this, is that between the Phage proc, Force Pulse, and Riftwalk, I think Kass is more able to stay locked in melee range than any other champ in the game.

To humor you though, say you got solidly on top of the enemy, and you feel no fear, add a Malady and a Bloodthirster, leaving a 6th slot to have fun with. Now you're bumping up close to 2.5 AS most of the time, and while you're not hitting as hard as Trynd, you have very impressive melee DPS, and 50%+ lifesteal, and supporting spell damage which is not inconsiderable.

If you're being focused a lot (which you often will be, if you enter the fray impulsively), then it depends on if your main threat is physical or magical, but your defensive items won't tend to lend to damage of course, other than Atma's. Atma's IS very often overlooked, but if you want to push your damage up, and get Armor at the same time..... though I will say, I remember one game in particular where a Thornmail was precisely what I needed to be an "over the top" threat.


The main point I tried to make about gear in the guide, however, is that Treads + Stark's + Triforce is simply the foundation of a full gear build, it's what you always want to get. IF the game continues beyond that, and WHEN you have money for more things, there are myriad choices for you, and only 1 rule - only get 1 more AS item, if any.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ebonclaw

Senior Member

03-03-2010

Just gonna bump this once, for people who missed it. <3


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KatsuriX

Junior Member

03-03-2010

I was wondering if you were over going to post a guide for your melee build :P. And yes, this does work. Its great fun to be called "baddie" for going melee kass, then finishing the game 12-2-10. Just wanted to post and +1, good guide ^-^.


1234567 ... 12