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RE: Queue-dodging penalties

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McCurry

Senior Member

02-23-2010

'So in recent news, queue dodging has dramastically dropped, but leavers and afk-ers have quadrupled'

Solo queue is gonna be helll since everybody always try to be a carry. Right now I still get teams with Heimer, Ashe, Ryze, Teemo, wait till people realize that people can't avoid them and they can play whatever they want


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Milskidasith

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Pendragon:
FPS games don't really have 30 minute sessions.


Battlefield could last that long, though maybe not on average, and a lot of games would hit their time limit (usually 25 minutes). I concede the point, however, though there are definitely games with sessions far longer than 30 minutes (TF2, for instance: Games with instant spawn on 2fort can be measured in how long it takes for the person running the server to change to a map that isn't a horrible stalemate).

Quote:
To be fair, one of my criteria was "Players are happy with "


To be fair, there seem to be more complaints on this forum about queue dodge penalties than there were on the Demigod forums about the (possible?) leaver problem. Could just be the difference in communities, but Demigod's seemed a lot more laid back than LoL's.

Quote:
1-4 minutes


Not an absurd amount longer than mine, then, though probably still much more annoying to get dodged in (and significantly higher in Elo, as well).


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D Wills

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
McCurry:
'So in recent news, queue dodging has dramastically dropped, but leavers and afk-ers having quadrupled'

Solo queue is gonna be helll since everybody always try to be a carry. Right now I still get teams with Heimer, Ashe, Ryze, Teemo, wait till people realize that people can't avoid them and they can play whatever they want


Solo queue is already hell, I have more losses than wins because of it, even though my k/d ratio isn't bad. Basically, I expect to lose every time I solo queue, but its no big deal. So what if you lose, so what if there's terrible players on your team, it shouldn't be such a big deal.

Every game I play is basically a solo queue, and most of my friends are lower levels than me, so all of my options set me up to have a bad game and lose, but why such the uproar?

I understand the frustration, really I do, and at times, I feel like dodging, but seriously, come on, 3-10 minutes? It's nothing.

I just can't understand the amount of anger coming from everyone, not you specifically, but still.


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Raygr

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Milskidasith:



To be fair, there seem to be more complaints on this forum about queue dodge penalties than there were on the Demigod forums about the (possible?) leaver problem. Could just be the difference in communities, but Demigod's seemed a lot more laid back than LoL's.

Okay correct me if i'm wrong but don't they have to pay for Demigod...Games in where one have to actually pay have slightly different communities then free ones. As in the community is a lot louder.


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Milskidasith

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Crispy Waffle:
Solo queue is already hell, I have more losses than wins because of it, even though my k/d ratio isn't bad. Basically, I expect to lose every time I solo queue, but its no big deal. So what if you lose, so what if there's terrible players on your team, it shouldn't be such a big deal.


If you think K/D ratio is an important part of the game, or rather more important than whether you win or not, you are part of the problem. I've had plenty of matches where I'll be playing mid and finish the game anywhere from 2/3/X to 2/8/X or 7/8/X or whatever, and some random player will say how I fed because they are 3/2/Low number as a ganker. K/D doesn't matter when you only get your kills and low deaths by being a coward and leaving your team to dry; for instance, recently as a laning Annie the Sion I was with, who had bought boots first, would never stun+shield anybody even when I had my stun up and asked him too, instead staying absurdly far back at full mana and full HP, never last hitting, etc. In the end, he went 2/1/2 and we lost, and he complained about me for feeding (I did terribly on my own right, but I had no laning partner and frequently got facerolled because of it.)

Quote:
Okay correct me if i'm wrong but don't they have to pay for Demigod...Games in where one have to actually pay have slightly different communities then free ones. As in the community is a lot louder.


This is true, but still, the criteria was simply "the community is happy with it" and, unless the community in LoL is currently considered unhappy, there is no way the Demigod community was, in general, unhappy about their system.


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D Wills

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Milskidasith:
If you think K/D ratio is an important part of the game, or rather more important than whether you win or not, you are part of the problem. I've had plenty of matches where I'll be playing mid and finish the game anywhere from 2/3/X to 2/8/X or 7/8/X or whatever, and some random player will say how I fed because they are 3/2/Low number as a ganker. K/D doesn't matter when you only get your kills and low deaths by being a coward and leaving your team to dry; for instance, recently as a laning Annie the Sion I was with, who had bought boots first, would never stun+shield anybody even when I had my stun up and asked him too, instead staying absurdly far back at full mana and full HP, never last hitting, etc. In the end, he went 2/1/2 and we lost, and he complained about me for feeding (I did terribly on my own right, but I had no laning partner and frequently got facerolled because of it.)



I wasn't trying to say that k/d is an important part of the game, and, trust me, I know its not. I was just trying to make the point that I'm not a terrible player, but I still suck up the losses.

Really it's no big deal, and I do understand, even if you think I don't.


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PrawnWonton

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Pendragon:
FPS games don't really have 30 minute sessions.


huh?

Quote:
1-4 minutes
You said you were in the high ELO bracket. And your queue times are only 1-4 minutes.

So for the remaining 95% of the player population not in the high ELO bracket, whose games only take 20-30 seconds maximum, queue dodging is a non-issue. Especially with the auto-queue.

You'd rather penalize someone for 'wasting' nine other players' time (9 x 30 seconds = 4.5 minutes total), and instead force people to play with afkers, feeders, people on your ignore list, etc., which wastes much, MUCH more time. (10 x 25 minutes = over 4 HOURS)

Your logic is flawless.

In before:
"But if you want to pick your teammates, just do a premade. Solo queue doesn't matter, so don't dodge."

I counter with:
"If solo queue doesn't matter, why do you care if someone dodges? If you really wanted a good match, make a premade."

But, wait, chances are pretty high someone on your premade will get shafted and not put into the game. Thus, someone on your team will have to dodge in order to rejoin as a team. Thus imposing the dodge penalty on everyone in your premade. Joy of joys.


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Milskidasith

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Crispy Waffle:
I wasn't trying to say that k/d is an important part of the game, and, trust me, I know its not. I was just trying to make the point that I'm not a terrible player, but I still suck up the losses.

Really it's no big deal, and I do understand, even if you think I don't.


By even mentioning K/D as a reason why you are good, you prove you don't understand. At a glance, K/D tells me nothing. If you gave me a players K/D, with no other statistics, I couldn't tell you if he was amazing, played terrible enemies, played broken flavor of the month heroes well, was a coward who sat back and was content with a 3/2/2 score that didn't help the team, or was an average player who was lucky.

To give you an idea, I can't and don't even evaluate my own play on my wins and losses just by my ratio, I check every single stat to see if there was anything I can improve on. Damage taken, damage recieved, creep kills, towers destroyed, time spent dead, I wish there was a stat for times going back to base, assists, item builds, etc. and even then I don't have the full picture without my teammates stats. By merely saying "I have a good K/D" you prove nothing besides that you think a good K/D can prove something.

EDIT: I'm not saying that K/D is meaningless, I'm just saying that there is a very rough correlation between skill and K/D ratio, and you can do fine with a <1 KD and be a horrible coward with a >1 KD.


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Gaeb

Recruiter

02-23-2010

Quote:
By even mentioning K/D as a reason why you are good, you prove you don't understand. At a glance, K/D tells me nothing. If you gave me a players K/D, with no other statistics, I couldn't tell you if he was amazing, played terrible enemies, played broken flavor of the month heroes well, was a coward who sat back and was content with a 3/2/2 score that didn't help the team, or was an average player who was lucky.
Honestly I think Riot should look into having D (and only D) be part of your Elo calc after a game, with these criteria:

#1) If you lost, then
#2) If you more than 40% of your team's deaths, then
#3) If you were not playing a champion flagged 'Tank', then
50% boost to ELO calc. (IE: Rather than -6. -9)

Just my $.02. Feeders ruin games, even unintentional ones. Even so, this idea is full of holes (afk'rs will drastically skew your denominator) but I'd love to play with the algorithm a bit. Yearg. Frankly, I'd also like to apply this to winners... if you're not on a champ flagged tank and you died 12x out of your team's 24 deaths, you probably shouldn't have been in that match to begin with...


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D Wills

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Milskidasith:
By even mentioning K/D as a reason why you are good, you prove you don't understand. At a glance, K/D tells me nothing. If you gave me a players K/D, with no other statistics, I couldn't tell you if he was amazing, played terrible enemies, played broken flavor of the month heroes well, was a coward who sat back and was content with a 3/2/2 score that didn't help the team, or was an average player who was lucky.

To give you an idea, I can't and don't even evaluate my own play on my wins and losses just by my ratio, I check every single stat to see if there was anything I can improve on. Damage taken, damage recieved, creep kills, towers destroyed, time spent dead, I wish there was a stat for times going back to base, assists, item builds, etc. and even then I don't have the full picture without my teammates stats. By merely saying "I have a good K/D" you prove nothing besides that you think a good K/D can prove something.


From what I remember typing, my intent was not to prove to the community that I was a good player, merely to prove that I'm not a terrible player. I know I'm not good at the game, but I try my best.

But from what you say, it looks like I'm a terrible player, sorry for the inconvenience, I'll try to keep my mouth shut in the future.

Like I said, I do understand, even if you think I don't.