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Void Staff vs. Abyssal Scepter on Ryze--an Analysis

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MathMage

Senior Member

04-07-2011

Introduction

After looking at just how much MR reduction Ryze can lay down on a target, I have to wonder why this hasn't been the subject of more discussion. So I'm going to discuss it. by impartially going over the math.


The Basic Math

Mpen reds + Sorc shoes + Spell Flux = 52.5 mpen (to be precise, it's 44 MR reduction + 8.5 mpen). As far as I know, you can't get more reduction with multiple bounces of Spell Flux; it simply re-applies the debuff.

With Abyssal Scepter, you get 72.5 effective mpen.

With Void Staff, you have 52.5 + 40% mpen.

The break-even point is 102.5 MR; Abyssal Scepter gives you more damage below that, and Void Staff gives you more damage above that.


Champion Examples

Everyone's going to have some MR at this point. It's just a fact. You

So when considering, say, Tristana with a BVeil and an Aegis aura (95 total MR), it's basically the same whether you get Abyssal Scepter or Void Staff--a few MR one way or the other.

On the other hand, a Shen with MR/lvl glyphs, Treads, Aegis, BVeil, FoN, and GA will take significantly less damage from you. 30 + 25 + 25 + 39 + 50 + 70 + 38 = 278 MR before reductions, 205.5 MR after Abyssal Scepter, and 135.3 MR after Void Staff. You deal ~33% damage with Abyssal, and ~42% damage with Void Staff.

An intermediate case would be, let's say, Nunu with Banshee's Veil, Merc Treads, Aegis buff, and his own Abyssal Scepter. That's 177 MR; 94.5 MR after Abyssal; and 68.7 MR with Void Staff. 51% damage output with Abyssal; 59% damage output with Void Staff. Again, a fairly significant bump.

Another case would be Xin Zhao with Treads, BVeil, and Aegis buff = 142.5 MR before mitigation, 70 MR with Abyssal, and 54 MR with Void Staff. 59% damage with Abyssal, 66% damage with Void Staff.


What about Archaic Knowledge?

Archaic Knowledge is applied last in all calculations, so it doesn't change anything about the relative benefits of Void Staff vs. Abyssal Scepter.


The Case for Each Side

These are the points in favor of Abyssal Scepter:
1) 57 MR on that Abyssal Scepter. More tankiness? Yes please.
2) Abyssal Scepter's aura benefits your teammates as well. Amumu will thank you.
3) The pieces of Abyssal Scepter are more useful. Amp Tome? Another 6 damage to my Q? Nah.

On the other hand, this is measured against the significant increase in damage you get (~8% of your unmitigated damage) against tankier champions.


Conclusion

Rather underwhelming--the squishier your enemy champs are late game, and the more magic damage they do, the more you want Abyssal Scepter. The beefier your enemies, the more you want Void Staff. It's probably better for your team if a support grabs Abyssal Scepter, as with all aura items; but give it a shot the next time a Ryze game drags on, and make that enemy Karthus cry.


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nivekuil

Senior Member

04-07-2011

tl;dr you get void staff if they stack MR, you get abyssal if you need more MR, otherwise RoA


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Maxmatical

Senior Member

04-07-2011

Getting AP on Ryze fail


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SharkPiledriver

Senior Member

04-07-2011

Void staff only works for you.

Abyssal is an aura that your teammates can take advantage of.


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RE Bantos

Senior Member

04-07-2011

Quote:
nivekuil:
tl;dr build neither and stack Revolvers


Fix'd.

HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE


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Riot Frosthaven

Senior Member

04-07-2011

Quote:
MaxPower2009:
Getting AP on Ryze fail


It isn't about the AP. There are only so many mana items before you have to start thinking mpen.


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BlackLordDragonX

Senior Member

04-07-2011

Quote:
MaxPower2009:
Getting AP on Ryze fail


yeah bro we buy Void staff because of the AP it gives not because of anything else.I mean 70 AP for 2k gold is not bad right?


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imhuge

Senior Member

04-07-2011

You


should probably just get Void Staff


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MathMage

Senior Member

04-07-2011

Quote:
MaxPower2009:
Getting AP on Ryze fail


Getting mpen on Ryze success?


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RagingDaffodil

Senior Member

04-07-2011

RoA is better than Abyssal if they have low MR.

Void is best vs high.


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