Two issues with Gankplank after the Patch!

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RittervomNie

Senior Member

02-20-2010

Hallo everyone!


This is not supposed to be a whining thread about how much Gankplank was nerved the last patch... but I want to Point out some things I think have to be changed now.

Before the Patch he was basically a Melee Nuker, having a strong magic attack wich got stronger with Dmg and Crit. Now he is in my Pont of view a melle / range physical DPS mutant, needs armor pen - which reduces the Crit you get by a big amout and is much easyer to conter... too easy for my taste!

Why?



Issue Number One: Nearly everythink counters Parley!

1. Now that it is Physical damage it is reduced a big amout by armor.
2. It can miss.... champions with doging skills or with phantom dancers do that a lot...
3. Then after being blinded you cant use it at all - in difference to all other nukes

with just these 3 Points you could think: OK so Parley is obviously a kind of extra ranged physical attack for a melee damagedealer... every 6 sec you can do a ranged attack wich does a bit extra damage... sounds fine? But...

4. Parley is Blocked by all kind of Spellshilds (eg. Silvir or Banshee's Veil)

Isn't this ****ty???? It has now that is is Physical all disadvantages of a Physical attack AND of Spells! The ONLY defensive Ability NOT helping against Parley is magic resist...

If you say now : that was like that before that patch... right... but 1. (armor reduction to parley) did not applie than and that changes a lot, don't you think?

If you Play agains a Teemo and a Silvir who know what to do your Parley will nearly not hit at all... Silvir can for instance eat every second parley with her spel shild and then the next parleys chance to even hit can be reduced by buying a phantom dancers AND the damage reduced by buying a bit of armor...
Decide for yourself how fair that is!



Issue Number two: The passive - Grog Soaked Blade

OK now Riot gave the little pirat a passive to reduce healing while dealing a dot...
Now this sounds fine... but making it not apply to parley is rediculous!

I tried to Point out before that parley is nothing but a extra ranged attack - therefore can be dodged - blinded - but also able to apply on hit effects. Now that does make gankplank a Phys melee/ranged hybird. His passive though does not applie on the ranged dps part!

Everyone who plays the pirat often will see that you are more than half of the time only damage with parley! Earlygame against ranged for harassing . late in big fights before moving in... and also when chasing someone you usually only get some parleys on the target.
So if riot wants us to be more of a mellee damagedealer than before - give us a passive with makes us more viable there OR make our passive also help with our ranged dps part.
Seriously: a Executioner's Calling has the same debuff for lousy 1350 gold! while dealing a bit less damage it works on parley and in that way even better than what we got.
If Grog Soaked Blade is to strong early game than nerv the damage - make it beginn with 1 or so... but don't let it just apply on our melee attacks!


To show you guys that i really think Pirate needs a bit of live after the nerve let me quote the writer of the best Gankplank guide out there:


Quote:
Lets first look at what he is not: a Carry. Why is he not a carry? Put simply, he doesn't have stellar abilities that allow him to carry like other champions do. Twitch has fantastic attack speed and range (and AOE too) thanks to Ambush and Spray and Pray. Same goes for Tristana with Rapid Fire. Corki has ridiculous damage and armor penetrating capabilities thanks to Gatling Gun, and Hextech Shrapnel Shells provides a decent amount of damage augmentation. Master Yi has a boat-load of abilities to help him carry: Double Strike, Wuju Style and Highlander. I could go on like this, but the common thread here is that all of these champions mentioned have abilities that significantly enhance their DPS (damage-per-second) capabilities in battle. The only thing that Gangplank has is Raise Morale, where the passive part pales in comparison to the aforementioned abilities, and the active part is highly dependent on having allied minions nearby (many team battles will take place in the river at Nashor or dragon, or in the woods at lizard or golem or any of the nearby brush). The most common instance where it will be used in a lane when minions are nearby is when your team is pushing a tower, at which point it becomes more of a pushing ability than a carry ability. Parrrley is not DPS, it is burst damage.

Gangplank isn't even that great at being a melee fighter. Even with Remove Scurvy, he is still easily kited by a ranged champion like Ashe, who has a spam-able slow. Tristana and Corki can easily escape his melee with Rocket Jump and Valkyrie, respectively. He has no targeted stun to hold his victims in place. Lets look at some other characteristics that make melee fighters effective and see how Gangplank stacks up:
- Immunity: Undying Rage, Intervention
- Dodge: Counterattack, Killer Instincts+Shunpo
- Ability to close distance on a target quickly: Leap Strike, Shunpo, Spinning Slash, Deceive, Infinite Duress
- Targeted slow/stun: Wither, Two-Shiv Poison, Cryptic Gaze, Dazzle
- Passive lifesteal: Soul Eater, Eternal Thirst
- Stealth (to approach melee range undetected): Deceive, Shadow Walk

Again, I could go on like this. The common thread here to be successful as a melee champion is having any combination of high survivability, distance closing abilities and targeted stuns or slows. Gangplank lacks all of these.

Quote:
For the reasons listed above, I still think Gangplank lacks melee potential, yet the fact that parrrley now does physical damage demands that melee and parrrley synergize together. In doing so, melee gets a buff indirectly, but only if armor penetration is stacked. Parrrley remains about the same (again, only if you stack armor penetration). However, since Riot opted not to buff Gangplank's HP or anything else to help him fulfill the melee DPS role demanded of him, the player remains torn by conflict. The result is what I like to call "choose your own nerf."

Do you want parrrley to still do the same amount of damage at all points in the game? Then sacrifice early game regen, chance to crit, cooldown reduction, or cannon barrage damage.

Do you want to make good use of your indirectly improved melee? Be prepared to stack HP, because if you thought you were focus fired a lot in team battles prior to this patch, you haven't seen anything yet. Unfortunately, you can't really do this early-mid game and still keep dishing out respectable parrrley hits.

Playing "choose your own nerf" isn't fun, but at least you get to choose, rather than Riot choosing for you. When I played "choose your own nerf" I went with cooldown reduction and early game regen. I will miss having parrrley on a 4 second cooldown and a shorter CD on cannon barrage, but when faced with alternative choices, it will have to go (getting a Golem buff becomes more essential now). Similarly, I take a dive in some HP regen, but I believe that void can be filled with health potions. I'm half expecting these changes to negatively affect my farming in the early-game laning stage, but I won't know for sure until I have given the new build a whirl.

Good luck trying the new Gangplank. Don't be surprised if you hate him. The new build I plan on using is far less elegant than it was before the patch.

Disclaimer: this build will probably fail hard unless you have stacked Marks and Quints of Desolation.

Summery:

Issue No.1: Make parley not blockable by Spell shields if you want to keep it being Phsyical damage and dodgeable

Issue No.2: Make parley apple Grog Soaked Blade (though balance its damage down quite a lot early on) or give him something new (melee survability or more synergie)



disclaimer: I posses the copyright to all Spelllingmistakes in this Post



EDIT.: making Summery more exact for it seems not everyone bothers reading everything...


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Cat Girl Sakuya

Senior Member

02-20-2010

With your first reason, I have to disagree, the reason Parrrley is blockable by tons of spells and effects is because of the fact that 1. It can crit and do **** loads of quick, easy, low mana damage and 2. It is not a skill shot, and since Parrrley tends to do as much damage as a skill shot, subtracting the skill, so it makes sense that it should be easily blockable.

With your second issue, I totally agree, right now, he doesn't do enough damage since he can't burst, and he can't do tons of DPS like someone like Yi or Jax can, so he needs a new skill to do something useful to killing people and not just using Parrrley and his ultimate for damage.

-Chris


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Noth

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Senior Member

02-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris11 View Post
With your second issue, I totally agree, right now, he doesn't do enough damage since he can't burst, and he can't do tons of DPS like someone like Yi or Jax can, so he needs a new skill to do something useful to killing people and not just using Parrrley and his ultimate for damage.

-Chris

Burst is the first word that comes to mind when I think of parley. Granted against tanks it's no longer that epic but against squishies it brutal.


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IamGrimm

Senior Member

02-20-2010

It's fun how you call him 'Gankplank' all the time and the posters didn't even bother to raise their eyebrows.

It's Gangplank, not to be a ***** though, I usually call him Gankplank or Spankplank myself too. Just fun how that worked out in your post =P


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Cat Girl Sakuya

Senior Member

02-20-2010

Yea, but most Burst Assassins can do massive Burst damage, like Kassadin and Pantheon, all Parrrley does is a bunch of damage and it's done, while Kassadin does 3 spells that slow, teleport you to them, and silence them, or Pantheon, who stuns, and does 3 damage dealing spells while doing bunches of damage, parrrley isnt enough to be called actual Burst damage on a character like Gangplank.

-Chris


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RittervomNie

Senior Member

02-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris11 View Post
Yea, but most Burst Assassins can do massive Burst damage, like Kassadin and Pantheon, all Parrrley does is a bunch of damage and it's done, while Kassadin does 3 spells that slow, teleport you to them, and silence them, or Pantheon, who stuns, and does 3 damage dealing spells while doing bunches of damage, parrrley isnt enough to be called actual Burst damage on a character like Gangplank.

-Chris
Thank you frind... you took the words right out of my mouth....
Parley is nice damage but more of a nice ragular damage - every 6 sec one ranged extra attack with +damage. Its damage is nice but you dont do more than a fifth or forth of a players health with it - at the squishiest heroes - if your enemys play half way decent.
Thats not exactly what i conceder a nuke...

And as stated before: as a ranged extra attack wich does every 6 sec extra damage is should be theated like it! And apart form being blocked it is!
Think about it:

-->An attack can Crit, apply on hit effects, can be dodged, is affacted by blind...

-->But is neither affected by Silence nor by Spellshilds!!!!!!

And thats the way is should be, now that Riot made it physical!



Quote:
I usually call him Gankplank or Spankplank myself too.
Hahaha Spankplank! even better than Gankplank! Lets make a vote to rename him...


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Chillspawn

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Senior Member

02-20-2010

Its the only ability in the game that allows you to crit. Sure make it not blockable bny spellshields, just make it not crit. Yea...


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RittervomNie

Senior Member

02-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillspawn View Post
Its the only ability in the game that allows you to crit. Sure make it not blockable bny spellshields, just make it not crit. Yea...


its always good to have reasonable feedback... *sigh*
And how many spells can be dodged?

did you even read?


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Chillspawn

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Senior Member

02-20-2010

I don't need to read, Gangplank is fine as is, learn to adapt.

Sword of the divine (not that its a good idea on GP but hey if everyone has dodge, take it) > Dodge.

Its an ability, why should it be the only ability in the game not blocked by spell shields on top of being the only ability in the game that can crit?

Spellshields can't be spammed.. I could cry that Gangplank can bypass Morgana in so many ways with his free cleanse but I don't. Besides, spellshields won't stop you for auto attacking him for 700 every second.

Grog Soaked Blade was deemed OP on Parrlay because it halves all regen, healing, anything you can do to tr and survive during laning phase. If you really want to stop healing, take executioners calling and it'll proc on Parrley until next patch..


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RittervomNie

Senior Member

02-20-2010

Quote:
Grog Soaked Blade was deemed OP on Parrlay because it halves all regen, healing, anything you can do to tr and survive during laning phase. If you really want to stop healing, take executioners calling and it'll proc on Parrley until next patch..
And the same passive you don't get from a 1350 hp item???
Really nice to discuss with someone who didn't even bother to read the first post...
Letz talk again when you did so dude ;o)