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Gragas makes me sad

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Skadoosh1337

Senior Member

04-05-2011

He's really fun to play, but so difficult at the same time... anyone got some pro tips?


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Kroghar

Senior Member

04-05-2011

I think he's just somewhat weak at the moment, or at least he doesn't stand out in any one area. He's been nerfed multiple times now when the only thing that ever made him slightly overpowered was the item that was removed anyway.

He is tricky to get the feel for though if you are a new player, best advice is just to stick with him for a while, watch some streams of good players. Nicosharp used to play Gragas exclusively, but has moved on after the nerfs and now he's left Gragas for a more attractive blond with a smaller chest.

Just feel him out, best way to play him now is probably hybrid. If you go straight AP you're going to taper off late game, he can't quite fit a full on tank role anymore, but can off-tank. His most valuable skill is his ult, and that takes practice. There's tons of tricks with it though, Can knock people through walls at their base to your team, can knock people away from you through walls, can catch runners, most importantly you can counter channeling abilities like Kat, and if your team is losing a team fight, you can scatter the opponents to hopefully give your teammates time to run.

Guess primarily:

- Lots of Barrel spam in lane, use it to harass and last hit, but try not to push your lane too much early on, Gragas can surprise people at level 6, but not if you're stuck at their turret. Once you're higher level you can start pushing the lane and going for the tower.

- ALWAYS be drunk and enraged. No reason not to spam that ability whenever you can. Mana gen, and damage reduction for free.

- Master your Body, slam. This ability can fly through walls, dash out of abilities, catch runners, get you in position for a barrel toss or ult, slow opponents chasing teammates, last hit, etc. Throw your weight around a lot.

- Always be looking for good opportunities to pull off a great ult, but also be extra careful not to mess up your team-mates. If you have champs with AoE's like Anivia, Katarina, Amumu, Galio, etc. Make EXTRA sure not to screw up their own abilities with your ult, surefire way to get flamed.

As for items, check around builds, I'm not 100% sure anymore. I'd probably angle a little towards AP at first, maybe a RoA or Rylai's. Maybe just go straight for Trinity for charging and hitting. Brutalizer. Aegis. Banshee's/Randuin's, etc. Emphasize tanking gear, but make sure you're not too weak at the same time.


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Warrrax

Senior Member

04-05-2011

He is difficult because he was way overly nerfed.

He used to be at a certain level which was considered too weak. So they buffed his Barrel.
Then Locket and tanky DPS came along and he was overpowered supposedly.

So they removed locket which balanced him fine and took care of the problem.
THEN, they nerfed the absolute crud out of Gragas, adding 50% CD to his ULT, removing 50% of his damage reduction, adding cooldown to his Dash, and a few others.

So nobody played him. BUT, they CONTINUED to nerf him by making his barrels weaker, cuz some people must have tried AP style by barrel-spam.


Last time I tried to play him I failed hard. He just doesn't do much anymore. I used to really enjoy him and did well with him even when my team QQed cuz I picked him. (before locket was in vogue)


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Piggotts

Member

04-05-2011

Quote:
Warrrax:
He is difficult because he was way overly nerfed.

He used to be at a certain level which was considered too weak. So they buffed his Barrel.
Then Locket and tanky DPS came along and he was overpowered supposedly.

So they removed locket which balanced him fine and took care of the problem.
THEN, they nerfed the absolute crud out of Gragas, adding 50% CD to his ULT, removing 50% of his damage reduction, adding cooldown to his Dash, and a few others.

So nobody played him. BUT, they CONTINUED to nerf him by making his barrels weaker, cuz some people must have tried AP style by barrel-spam.


Last time I tried to play him I failed hard. He just doesn't do much anymore. I used to really enjoy him and did well with him even when my team QQed cuz I picked him. (before locket was in vogue)


This. I also tried to play him recently becasue he was my fav champ but i just failed with him. Tried him as tank and AP. When built as a tank, he is simply outdone by all other tanks and can be flat-out ignored in team fights. Built as AP, he can be strong early game if you land his barrels but he is just horrible late game and again, he is just outdone by many AP casters.

Riot killed Gragas.


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malphismia

Senior Member

04-05-2011

He's useless, I tried him again and they nerfed him badly.

He is strong early game (although they nerfed his staying power too), late game he is ignorable. Not a game-changer.

Best build is straight AP/MPen early game, then build tanky.


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Narnak

Senior Member

04-05-2011

He's pretty much a situational pick nowadays. He is still a very strong laner and can flat out own a lot of different carries in a solo lane. His damage just doesn't scale well into late game. If you play him as AP/tanky he can still be very effective... I think this is more prevalent however in the EU meta where they often put a bruiser/tank in top lane, mage in mid, and AD carry/support bot. Thus Gragas is not really playing the role of a carry and isn't relied upon to do most of the teams DPS, because that's not really what Gragas does. He's more of a disruptor that can DPS than a pure DPS (aka bruiser that builds AP)


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Omesh

Senior Member

04-05-2011

I'd like them to unnerf Gragas. First champ I bought after really being taken by his playstyle, character, and power level; good, but hard to use so I never felt like I was playing a totally broken hero, and he could be played a number of different ways as the situation called for it. I won't say he's outright unplayable but I can't justify choosing him over the other champs I own when I solo queue.


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Warrrax

Senior Member

04-05-2011

I just don't get it though. Malphite is a real Tanky Caster, as is Ryze. They both have disruption. They are both much better.
And yet, Gragas gets nerfed...again.


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Narnak

Senior Member

04-05-2011

Malphite has better disruption, but not better laning. Malphite is very strong in lane but more durable than a threat to kill you very early in the game. Gragas does more damage and has very good regen as well. Now I'm not saying Gragas is in the best place. But he's not a totally useless pick. If you are godlike with Gragas and mediocre with some other hero that is arguably stronger in today's meta, it's still better for you to play Gragas in most cases.

Also as mentioned he was nerfed because of the EU meta. This was stated by Riot at the time of his last nerf. He was a very popular pick/ban still in EU as a solo top. The reason he's not as popular in NA is that the NA meta does not very commonly pair an AD carry in bottom lane with a support/tank duo. The have their 2 carries take the solos. In EU, the AD carry duos and a tank/bruiser solos top generally. Thus it opens up more opportunities for a Gragas pick here because he is such a strong laner and can soak up 100% of last hits pretty easy in a solo lane. Which makes for a very strong mid game team comp.

Gragas as a duo laner is not as strong unless he is taking all of the last hits (usually not the case) or you are just dominating your lane and able to roam for kills. Basically Gragas needs to get fat early one way or another to make an impact late, since he does not scale that well. Also many times a Gragas pick suggests the team is going for a mid-game win, i.e. force team fights and push to hell.


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malphismia

Senior Member

04-05-2011

The only gragas that was memorable in my games, was this one with leviathan, he managed to get 20 stacks since he escapes so easily, and then he built damage and then carried his team.


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