[guide] Shaco: Pennywise eat your heart out

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Matthew21210

Senior Member

04-06-2010

Yeah. Figured I'd give the AP shac a try after the nerf even though I've been loving the ever loving love out of the critmaster shaco. Sure, it involves auto attacking, and there's a few AD like qualities to it.
But....
You failed me condon. This is the first time, and I really want to make it work, but if it is going to work, this has to be the last time too.
Okay baby?
Seriously though. Good post patch build is critmaster. Put me on a winning streak so big it stuck me in a higher ELO bracket with a ****ty pre made right when I tried the AP build... So god ****ed much CC spam... Jax, and ryze and shen and ****ing **** ****.
/rage
good luck on the AP shaco. He's still deadly, he just can't golem as well and has a poor early game. and a poor late game because of a poor early game. And no mid game, unless you count the part with all the punting.


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condon

Senior Member

04-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew21210 View Post
Yeah. Figured I'd give the AP shac a try after the nerf even though I've been loving the ever loving love out of the critmaster shaco. Sure, it involves auto attacking, and there's a few AD like qualities to it.
But....
You failed me condon. This is the first time, and I really want to make it work, but if it is going to work, this has to be the last time too.
Okay baby?
Seriously though. Good post patch build is critmaster. Put me on a winning streak so big it stuck me in a higher ELO bracket with a ****ty pre made right when I tried the AP build... So god ****ed much CC spam... Jax, and ryze and shen and ****ing **** ****.
/rage
good luck on the AP shaco. He's still deadly, he just can't golem as well and has a poor early game. and a poor late game because of a poor early game. And no mid game, unless you count the part with all the punting.
I hate to have to agree with you, but yeah, AP shaco is kind of tanked at the moment. As I said a few posts ago, I'll find a way to make it work. I ****ing hate AD shaco. I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Keep in mind this means that as of this post using this guide is not the greatest plan, though it may still work out in lower ELO brackets. Shaco just got the nerf bat like everything else I love in life. C'est la vie.


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mufty

Junior Member

04-07-2010

I tried out AP shaco and came to the conclusion that its ok..but you prolly are a lil toooo squishy. A catalyst in the beginning might help with that (while giving you more mana for the nice lil SiB)...later into a ROA or if needed a banshees...Mejais is ok...but definately not as your top priority item since most kills come a tad bit later.

What worked for me was : boots, catalyst , mejai, ROA/Banshees, RoA/Banshees (if there is no need for Banshees then just get another RoA), Zhonya. With these items your not squishy...you have enough mana to use your skills and also you have the AP to do a sh!tload of damage.

Cheers


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Gumb E

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Senior Member

04-08-2010

Other ideas:

You don't like straight AD/carry/autoattack builds. Cool. Two other possibilities come to mind.

One
Pendragon has recorded livestream footage of an Energizer-bunny-esque jungling/ganking/survivability -looking sort of a build. Basically it appears that the goal isn't necessarily to harass or to gank, but instead to rocket all over the map in the pursuit of as much gold and XP as jesterly possible. Usually this involves jungling and mopping up creeps that are in temporarily empty lanes, but periodically means popping over a wall and startling the **** out of enemies.
Constant blue-golem-uptime means more JitB fears & Deceives, means more mobility, means more gold, XP, and ability to engage/disengage at will. Nearly-constant red buff means that a surprised enemy has little chance of escaping you. And dragon, well... dragon control is amazing for your team. Maybe take a look at Pendragon's livestream, or come up with your own version based on my summary?

Two
Clone abuse. You seem to like being annoying, based on your Winbeard / U.G.R. / Pennywise advice. Clones can't use your skills, but they sure can use items. Do they do it reliably enough to where you can be certain that, say, you can spawn a clone and depend on it to apply Executioner's Calling debuff to the target?

- Guardian Angel is well-documented and recommended by many.
- Will a clone join you in double-blasting an enemy with Deathfire Grasp?
- How useful is it to apply Malady and Black Cleaver stacks twice as fast?
- Jax is somewhat ubiquitous right now. Standard tanks, too, often have Dodge masteries and runes. Doubling up on Sword of the Divine + Bloodrazor = shutting their cocky asses down? The MFing chogath has to be handled by someone!
- Tiamat? Eh... probably not. But maybe sunfire cape!
- Stark's... you may not be the best candidate for building it. But if, for some reason, you are, you can pop clone for a poop tonne of lifesteal, I guess.
- Is the clone smart enough to pop Zhonya's or Quicksilver at opportune moments? Probably not, and those items are better for champions that don't have Deceive and JitB already to ensure their survival. The only reason I think of it is because Quicksilver might be nice for those moments where they toss Rune Prison or some other spammable CC to keep your clonebomb away from them.


Wit's End, Rylai's/Phage, other stuff... probably not as good as the aforementioned stuff, but who knows. A clone abuser, obviously, can't make use of the entire list of above items. But you can choose synergistic items and/or tailor it to the enemy team instead of relying on a certain core strategy. If the enemy team has poor resistance to nukes / low MR, maybe you aim for sunfire, deathfire, and an item or two with magic pen. If they're focusing/hating on you, grab guardian angel and stark's. If their armor is poor because they're stacking MR against your 4 AP-based allies, go to town with Cleaver and Executioner's.

Not that either of these builds are something I can personally recommend, because I'm a poor Shaco player. 'Swhy I loved your guide, because I get tired of playing Soraka/Heimer/Zilean sometimes. But since AP is so badly nerfed, I thought maybe I could contribute back to my favorite guide author with some ideas. Good luck with whatever Shaco you end up going with, and I look forward to your guide revision!


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DeathOver321

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Member

04-08-2010

well condon i think thats a physlogical issue you have from haterd you got for AD builds, as thise guide relying too much on JITB first its not viable in high ELO second any one got brain will know that you are building JITB and will never chase you , its a defensive guide you make , AD Offensive shaco is alot more High ELO and you can carry your team good , with 3 crit you kill any one while in AP you are just Fragile + item dependant , every one have his own style but dont tell me you will face a stupid enemy !
so AP JITB shaco cant get you a wining Streak , while playing AD can get you alot !! (33 win streak for me!) and btw AP shaco TEAM dependent while AD is a SOLO killer Offensive ..


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Kadzin

Senior Member

04-14-2010

Great guide as always condon
I find myself spamming two shiv more often the laying trap nests though
Except for that one game when their Katarina just kept going into the middle lane bush near a tower that leads to the lizard (you know the one)
her team would yell in all chat for her to not go there but she would anyway.
fun times ^^


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Concretar

Senior Member

04-20-2010

I've played AD shaco for a little while and got successful immediately, but he's mostly solo (and if he's in teamfights, I purposefully ks).
AP Shaco lets me fear and divide the whole opposing team, divide and conquer, gank, and do even MORE damage with my shivs. It's a paradise!


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Concretar

Senior Member

04-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathOver321 View Post
well condon i think thats a physlogical issue you have from haterd you got for AD builds, as thise guide relying too much on JITB first its not viable in high ELO second any one got brain will know that you are building JITB and will never chase you , its a defensive guide you make , AD Offensive shaco is alot more High ELO and you can carry your team good , with 3 crit you kill any one while in AP you are just Fragile + item dependant , every one have his own style but dont tell me you will face a stupid enemy !
so AP JITB shaco cant get you a wining Streak , while playing AD can get you alot !! (33 win streak for me!) and btw AP shaco TEAM dependent while AD is a SOLO killer Offensive ..
I don't think trapping people with JITB is something for low elo matches. Shaco isn't someone you ever chase - if you want to make use of your JITB in high elo matches, you have to anticipate where the enemy will be. Thankfully, high elo players have somewhat predictable routes between the towers they defend.

When a few of their mid towers are down, there is bound to be more traffic on their side of the jungle between their intact lanes and mid. Set up a nest here and ideally, their strongest defenders or most intimidating carry will be moving from tower to tower to fight off your team. These are the people you eat alive.


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Lord Mathrotus

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Senior Member

04-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Mathrotus View Post
Well I found out a decent strat.

Basically the item build is based on your guide's but the skill leveling build is more based on something that resembles toggle's (i know everyone hates him, but then again its by personal preference)

What I do is i still go get golem buff with jacks
and then I level decieve (because until you get any AP or magic pen items lvl 1 decieve is better than lvl 1 shivs, both damage and utility wise. Decent damage with stealth to escape.)
but then instead of going jack lvl 2 i start lvling shivs as much as possible and harass with it.

My item build is
  • Start with Regen bead + fairy pendant + potion (mana or hp, doesnt really matter)
  • Back when I can afford lvl 1 boots + haunting guise
  • Back when i have 730 or so (? forgot the price on it) to buy kage's lucky pick (decent AP with gold income to compensate for not getting philo stone). If i happen to have enough for MS 3 boots i get them (i dont like mobilities as theyre bad on clone, who is constantly gonna get attacked).
If i didnt have enough i dont really back right when i have enough, i just buy the following items as i back and have enough:
  • boots of swiftness (if you dont already have them)
  • catalyst (i cant really decide whether its better to get the saph crystal or the ruby one first, guess it depends on how youre doing.)
  • Rod of ages (yeah its kinda bad to make clone explode fast but then again i dont initiate with clone, i just wait until everyone is focusing me for whatever reason (or until im low enough) and then hallucinate + decieve to a nearby brush and laugh)
  • zhonias (the new active is great if you use it right after hallucinate)
  • if theyre starting to get some magic res, sell haunting guise for void staff, otherwise transform kage's into deathfire grasp or sell it for lichs bane (unless you want both then dont sell it, lol)
  • at this point i like getting void staff even if theyre not stacking magic res since the 70 ap still helps a bit
Usually the rod of ages should give you enough mana to harass them to death but if it happens you dont then consider fitting another mana item somewhere into that (banshee's veil or arch's, for example)

What I do is basically the same all game, be it in the laning phase or any other phase.
In the laning phase I secure the area with jacks (golem buff lets you do that fast) so that they dont call a gank (or if they do, it turns in your favor) and harass them until either you kill them or force them to b. Then you push as much as possible by setting a jack behind their tower to intercept their minions and by using your clone for extra damage if you have it. If by the time you feel theyre about to come defend it, your clone is still alive, make the real you back first and let the clone stand there auto attacking for a few seconds still. Odds are he will be ganked and you wasted all their stuff while still dealing some extra damage to both the tower and them.

In the other phases its pretty much the same. Set yourself a nest of jacks nearby and start going back and forth to the enemies to harass them. If they dont retaliate, continue and make them even weaker until your team can tower dive and kill them anyways. If they do retaliate, try and get them to chase you into the nest and laugh.
Ugh, every single patch ****s my builds up.
Now that they changed haunting guise though, I prefer rushing kage's lucky pick, followed by catalyst, boots of mobility, rod of ages, and ONLY THEN getting haunting guise. After that I usually build zhonyas and then upgrade my kages into deathfire.


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Machinas

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05-18-2010

I'll tell you this -- AP shaco rots at high ELO, but it rapes at low ELO. People get used to ignoring damage from JitB at low ELO. Thanks for the guide, even though it will slowly become less useful to me as I get better xD