[guide] Shaco: Pennywise eat your heart out

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Fluffy1

Senior Member

05-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinas View Post
I'll tell you this -- AP shaco rots at high ELO, but it rapes at low ELO. People get used to ignoring damage from JitB at low ELO. Thanks for the guide, even though it will slowly become less useful to me as I get better xD
i really wonder when people will stop thinking AP shaco is jitb centric, his two shiv active is what hes all about, jitbs are used in the same was as AD shaco just if you wanna stack them while waiting around doing nothing you dont need as many for the kill.

just drop 1-2, it will take off a good amount of HP and force them to recall or avoid the fight if they are going to one.

if anything i believe AD shaco is more useless in high elo than AP shaco, all AD can do is use his -escape- move for 1 auto crit(and pray they dont dodge it) and usualy die(with decive on CD) as people know how to switch targets and focus them down in higher elo, and the clone wont save you as they know which is the real one.

AP shaco is a team fighter, he can harrass hard with shivs while the teams face off, drop jitbs to catch flankers and runners(and maybe kill them unlike AD whose jitbs just delay) and can drop the clone to either make people avoid it and stop attacking or have it blow up due to AOE and turn the fight instantly

no matter how fed shaco gets hes still worthless late game no matter the build. ap doesnt need as many kills so is less likely to be taking kills from team mates who could use them better.


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JackAubrey

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Senior Member

05-19-2010

I agree, JitB is definitely not the skill that makes AP Shaco shine, it's just the most visible difference that people notice (ironic, that). Running AP Shaco means Deceive->Box in their way->Hit->Shiv->Hit. With a Lich Bane, you've got enough damage to kill someone right there, and with a Deathfire's Grasp you've got a huge nuke every minute to add to your already high damage. Add in the fact you can do most of your damage from range, and you've got a much more survivable Shaco, without any survivability items.

I usually build

Amplifying Tome + Health Pot (Solo golem)
Tome->Mejai's or Kage's Lucky Pick (you need both early)
Boots 1 then whichever I didn't get
Fiendish Codex (builds into Deathfire and gives mana regen)
Sorcerer's Boots

At that point I check if the other team is stacking magic resist. If they are, Void Staff. If not, Lich Bane. Add in a Zhonya's Ring if the game is long. You turn the Pick into a DFG when you need the damage more than the money generation, I usually do it after the Lich Bane.

I loved playing AD and AS Shaco, but I felt like I was playing a frail character that needs to be melee for his damage. I always ended up dying too often for my taste.


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Juisred

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Recruiter

05-19-2010

Hm...Shaco is free this week...should I try this AP build? Or is it too nerfed?

PS: could condon dumb down the section on early jungling...for some reason I have a hard time following it (what's leash? is it they go back home after distance?)


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Fluffy1

Senior Member

05-19-2010

the leash is the distance jungle creeps will follow before breaking off chase and begin healing. early jungling is easy with shaco, run upto golem at start, and start stacking jitbs in the bush near him(i like the middle of the clearing personally in case of dumb gankers) with about 5 jitbs you can just hit golem and run back, he will walk past the lizards who stand still due to ranged and will then die on your many many jitbs. use practice games to get the hang of it.


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Theorycrafter

Senior Member

05-22-2010

TF guide next?


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Jkase

Member

05-23-2010

I wish condon would reply. :P Idk what ELO I am, but AP Shaco just makes me so happy when he's running through the brush, dropping JitB's, tossing shivs and blinking everytime the chaser gets close.... fun times.


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LogJammin

Senior Member

05-23-2010

I was attempting this build (before i realized it was outdated), it worked really well once because I was able to actually reach end-game where I started just chopping down people with shivs.

I am having trouble with actual strat as Shaco... I seem to be really falling behind as a team-player with him, maybe I spend way too much time waltzing around the jungle trying to lay traps and pick up ganks. Before I know it, I've fallen behind in levels and then I'm even less good to my team. However, I feel like it's almost a waste to actually lane with Shaco as I feel like I should be making people nervous the whole time by staying MIA.

As someone mentioned earlire, sitting around in one spot making a jitb nest feels like a huge waste of time, but it feels like one of the main ways to put good use to an AP build. The shiv just doesn't do good enough damage until my AP gets pretty high. Thoughts?


I think the best strat of success with jitb nests I've had was waiting until an enemy or two push a side lane, then I'll run up from the river behind them. Deceive out of the river bush and run invis over to the 2 large bushes on the side and make a real nasty nest of jitbs. Then I deceive back out and run around and 3 man push and in all likelyhood, one of them runs into the boxes and dies hilariously. This is also good for a morale boost.


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Calcabrina

Senior Member

05-23-2010

jitb scales worse than shiv, and requires a lot more time. plus they rely on your opponent messing up rather than your own ability, which is iffy.


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Fluffy1

Senior Member

05-23-2010

@LogJammin - i find i need to get above the curve early, i usually have flat AP quints and scaling AP glyths to give me a noticable shiv hit at rank 2. the regen pendant works wonders early so once i have enough i get sorc boots asap and then buy an elixer of brilliance. the elixer is the key o my builds sucess. if you can get one early you will have around 80 AP at level 4-5, and witth your passive you are hitting squishy heroes for 25% of their HP, after 2-3 shivs you own that lane. if they stay in lane with a tiny amount of hp you might be able to sneak a shiv while their at the tower.

ive been trying out archangels lately aswell, its proving amazing as my mana never runs out.


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Machinas

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Member

05-23-2010

@ Calc

JitB doesn't have to rely on their failures -- The fact that you can pump them through walls and use them while deceived means they can work for many purposes -- Walling off escape routes, helping fleeing allies, etc. The AP means you actually do respectable damage with it as well. And sometimes, it really is just unavoidable running into box nests, like when they're in the brush and it's your only route, or between towers and the outer just got pushed down.

My personal favorite is late game stacking 4 by pushing them through the wall to between the inhibitor towers, and then baiting by deceiving into their base near the boxes with reduced HP.

Two-shiv is your main nuke/killing tool, but it's not nearly as entertaining to use and scales with AD Shaco too, which is why it's not as representative of AP Shaco. I find it most useful to fold squishies in teamfights than to perform Shaco-brand box ganks, stacking three or four between the lane towers and then driving them back/blowing up the tower with my lanemate.

However, it does have some hard counters, primarily any hero with a high-damage AOE long-range nuke -- That would be Corki, Karth, Veigar, et cetera. If they've got a lot of these, then focus on two-shiv, keep your boxes single-serve map controllers, and maybe try a bit of hybrid work.

The primary reason I play AP is because of box nests though -- You give your team a huge boost to morale (And cause everybody to fall off their rocker laughing) when some hapless fool wanders into a 5-box stack and dies with almost no intervention from you. They also give your team a place to run to when escaping, and it usually nets you kills. Sweet, sweet kills.