Discussion on Effect of Improving Match Maker.

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GG DraKe

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Senior Member

03-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl the Pagan View Post
We generally get this suggestion a lot. However deciding whether or not to include secondary stats (aka placing blame for a win/loss) is above my pay grade.
Then please make a reasoned argument to someone who can make a decision for the players? It's not placing blame for a win/loss so much as to separate out people who have less skill and don't belong in the elo. I really can't think of another way to do it, but the current way isn't working.


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GG DraKe

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Senior Member

03-30-2011

no response


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Aregionius

Senior Wrenchman

03-30-2011

The carry effect is pretty strong, we've seen this demonstrated a number of times and I bet, if you're a great player in the 1600+ range or even if you're a good player below that, if you start a new character playing in a low ELO, eventually you'll be able to get to or even surpass where you're at now.

Does that mean you won't get a conflux of absolutely terrible players or ones who just can't work together as a team? No, but that's hardly happening every game. If we looked at your W:L ratio I can guarantee we're not going to see 2 wins and 400 losses because you got paired up with 1600 terrible teammates.

The problem we see here, especially with good carry players, is that there is a tendency to focus on individual games. Coming off one or two losses where teammates made a mistake or had a bad game, yet if you look, their overall W:L ratio it's still positive.

Now all this is not to say that MM can't use improvement, and the statistics from the system constantly get reviewed and tweaks have been made, but when you introduce individual stats, it opens up a whole new can of worms that breaks down pretty quickly.


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GG DraKe

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Senior Member

03-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aregionius View Post
The carry effect is pretty strong, we've seen this demonstrated a number of times and I bet, if you're a great player in the 1600+ range or even if you're a good player below that, if you start a new character playing in a low ELO, eventually you'll be able to get to or even surpass where you're at now.

Does that mean you won't get a conflux of absolutely terrible players or ones who just can't work together as a team? No, but that's hardly happening every game. If we looked at your W:L ratio I can guarantee we're not going to see 2 wins and 400 losses because you got paired up with 1600 terrible teammates.

The problem we see here, especially with good carry players, is that there is a tendency to focus on individual games. Coming off one or two losses where teammates made a mistake or had a bad game, yet if you look, their overall W:L ratio it's still positive.

Now all this is not to say that MM can't use improvement, and the statistics from the system constantly get reviewed and tweaks have been made, but when you introduce individual stats, it opens up a whole new can of worms that breaks down pretty quickly.
It just isn't feasible to play a carry every game, neither is it enjoyable. I regularly get feeders on my team, where if you check their last 10 games they are pretty much ALL extremely negative scores, high deaths, low assists or kills. Like it or not, assists + kills as a single stat, and deaths indicate VERY clearly how proficient you are with a champion. You cannot name a single champion where dying a lot serves the teams purpose well. Even if you introduce only deaths (as deaths are what makes enemies stronger) you end up making the match making system a lot better.

At this moment in time, my choice in champions is limited even further than in 5v5 team play in ranked solo queue, because I need to be champions that have amazing early game potential or ganking potential to make sure one lane doesn't die 5 times in the first 5 minutes. This isn't how the game should be, especially with constant balancing of heroes....

I understand Riot doesn't want to introduce kills and assists because they don't want people to just kill steal all the time, or ONLY play heroes like twitch where its relatively easy to get kills. However, if you have kills and assists as a single stat, it means that support champions etc. will even it out.

Deaths is slightly troublesome, as you may just get people who afk in a game, but that's why you bring in both kills and assists + deaths.

This IS important because deaths are what makes the other team stronger. The more one person feeds, the stronger the other team gets. I mean, first 3 deaths will give the enemy team almost 1k gold... In a lane where the person is already lower skilled compared to the person who just killed him, this has a HUGE snowball effect. And you can't exactly just swap, since usually you have two solo lanes and causing your solos to be underleveled and under farmed poses potential problems too. If you die a lot, you are NOT playing in the right elo. I mean, the only times when I have a death rate anywhere near as high as my kills + assists is when I give up and feed on purpose, and in games where my team has a ridiculously low kill score compared to the other team.


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GG DraKe

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Senior Member

04-03-2011

nn


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kamui00

Junior Member

04-04-2011

Probably someone has said this before, and I'm definitely not afraid of saying it again...

THIS GAME IS GOING DOWNHILL

There is much more to be considered to make this game more competitive. Getting to lvl 30 to play ranked games is just a matter of time, not really skills (Yep, started playing this since October, previously DotA and HoN player). K : D should be a good addition for this issue but as we can see... programmers are not doing anything, and its fair, this game is free anyways.


Everyone has been requesting a banning system, and it doesn't seem to work.
Heroes of Newerth has the RAP system similar to the one LoL has. Problem with that is, we never see if the person we reported will ever get banned, therefore we assume they are still around (which is true, same leavers, just another game). Garena (DotA) has their ladder system which is very efficient.

Pre-mades = solution to all this? True. Get some friends, RSVP, don't ever get out of your apartment, and have fun stomping for 7 hours. Cool story bro!

There were some of my suggestions... Mods who are reading this take this into account, else is fine.

My very 1st post and probably my last.

And I'm going back to HoN! (sarcasm),

Have a good one!


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GG DraKe

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Senior Member

04-05-2011

Lol wow I just had a game where we lost all towers, aced them somehow and pushed to nexus and one person didn't realise attacking nexus would make us win, ran back to defend our inhibs against minions.


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Tidy Cat

Senior Member

04-05-2011

The match making system actually works pretty well at doing what it's designed to do: forcing you to lose roughly half your games. Why they feel the need to do this is beyond me, but there it is.


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hampsterblade

Senior Member

04-05-2011

Yes, your skills as a player seem to have nothing to do with your W:L. I'll win 2 or 3. We'll be winning, both teams seem to have one or 2 really bad feeders who think that just because they're Tryndamere and their ultimate is "I Don't Die" they can attack the enemy under their turret, and they die, and what's worse is then they yell at me for not running in and attacking. I'm like, you think I want to 3v2 under an enemy turret. It kills the fun of the game. About 1:10 games as people have said seem to be truly fun where both teams are really equally matched, nobody thinks to consider surrendering, and we both push hard for 60 minutes keeping each other on our toes. I wish every game, or at least a better ratio of them were like this. I don't think it should be based on W:L but K: D. Sure I may win 200 and lose 180, but if each of those games I had 14 deaths and 10 kills I doubt I was much help to my team.


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GG DraKe

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Senior Member

04-05-2011

It is actually pathetic I just had a 1600 elo player on my team. He fed 0/6 and lost his lane. Sad thing was he duoed with a 1250 who made the match even more imbalanced....


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