[GUIDE] Ryze at Mid-ELO

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Samus Araan

Senior Member

02-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Itches View Post
How are you finding Doran's Ring compared to Sapphire Crystal? The extra HP and mana regen seem nice but it seems like it would slow down your item progression by a decent amount since you can't build into a Catalyst (or anything) from Doran's Ring.

Is the 120 HP worth giving up 6 hp regen/5?
So far I am finding that no, it is not. The hp regen to me is worth more than the HP and mana regen. The mana regen has little use because the Utility tree gives me all I need for the whole game, and the 10 AP and 120 HP, while nice, are not worth the cost. However, I would not be against people going for this item first as it is still great on him. I personally prefer my Crystal and 2 pots because they keep me in the lane until level 6 90% of the time.


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Samus Araan

Senior Member

02-18-2010

Lately I have been experimenting with using mp/5 runes in the blue slot instead of CD@18 and Dodge runes in the yellows/quints instead of flat health. Makes for a MUCH stronger early game, and when the 5v5 time comes this usually pays dividends in that I am more farmed (extra mana = more spam against creeps) and then the 6% Utility CD + Golem + Elixir = 39% CD anyways, only 1% off the 40% cap.

The mp/5 runes are nice because they do give me the ability to farm with my spells a tad more and make up for not having a Doran's Ring at lvl 1. The dodge I find to be really excellent early game because auto-attack does as much damage as spells for the first few levels in 2v2 combat. Also great late game against Twitch/CM/Tristana. Will upgrade the guide to have this as a possible alternate build. I think that with the Ryze beef his rune builds are really open now to whatever the individual user likes! Thanks Riot


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OderusUrungus

Junior Member

02-18-2010

i think starting with the souldstealer is best, because with ryze its really easy to get some early kills, and so stacking ap quicker helps, and then get the tear, followed by boots, rylais, zhonyas, then finish the archangels staff and then the last item depends on who youre playing with, void staff for lots of magic resist, another zhonyas to really do some damage,


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Samus Araan

Senior Member

02-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by OderusUrungus View Post
i think starting with the souldstealer is best, because with ryze its really easy to get some early kills, and so stacking ap quicker helps, and then get the tear, followed by boots, rylais, zhonyas, then finish the archangels staff and then the last item depends on who youre playing with, void staff for lots of magic resist, another zhonyas to really do some damage,
Against good opponents in the mid-ELO range who are all on vent and have good teamwork your build will probably fail. This guide is designed for higher-end players looking to make Ryze viable in competitive games. For pub stomping your build works fine though

Hint hint: Most games at my ELO I end with Sorc boots, Mejai's, Veil, and 50% of the time Rylai's. Most games at higher ELO (as I understand it) do not have the abundance of gold that your build calls for. Note my guide doesn't really concern itself with what happens beyond the core three items, simply because most good games won't feed you the gold necessary to build them.


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JoeCool808

Member

02-19-2010

Your guide makes Ryze very cruel.
weaker combo + running away + coming back for another combo > strong combo + die

Banshees makes me a difficult target or lower priority target against others (like other ryzes and annies) because they don't wanna waste a part of their combo on me. It's a great deterrent from being targeted.
Your explanation for using flash and ghost have also gotten me so many kills as well as saved me.

Thanks for the guide, I've gone 20-2-6, 12-0-12, and 9-0-15 because of it.


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Samus Araan

Senior Member

02-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeCool808 View Post
Your guide makes Ryze very cruel.
weaker combo + running away + coming back for another combo > strong combo + die

Banshees makes me a difficult target or lower priority target against others (like other ryzes and annies) because they don't wanna waste a part of their combo on me. It's a great deterrent from being targeted.
Your explanation for using flash and ghost have also gotten me so many kills as well as saved me.

Thanks for the guide, I've gone 20-2-6, 12-0-12, and 9-0-15 because of it.
Another satisfied customer! Glad the guide has helped you and thanks for the positive feedback

Your math is exactly right by the way. Not dying > dying. Keep those counters on the Soulstealer, and so what if you get more assists than kills? You are still winning, and in the end you will be stomping everyone hard.


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nicosharp

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Senior Member

02-19-2010

Hey Samus, This is a good guide, and I am a believer in Strength of Spirit now. I've been running 10-7-13 with ignite/ghost and it also works quite well.

Some things I want to point out that are a bit disturbing about Ryze in higher-level play:

-He can not push the backline successfully against solid comps, and even when you go full-tank he will not be effective at late game pushes when both teams have solid positioning. (this is especially true when the true tank initiates and forces you to run back, take stun+insta death from backline, or blow a skill or 2 on him, wasting half a volley that could be used on the backline.)
* The counter arguement to this is that I should still be running Flash, as getting to their backline late game and diving to snare their main dps can make some difference in a fight, but it is not typically enough, even with a solid defensive build.

-To link to the above because of the cat and mouse late-game disadvantage, Ryze is really only effective early game and by outpushing/outkilling and outleveling the enemy team. Late-game dps champs (especially ranged) do more damage, and are harder to shutdown due to regen items, and have better range.

-This means that Ryze helps your team lose games late-game despite your item build due to the simple fact that he is a lackluster caster with no aoe stun/cc/utility to help the team push other then his close range burst damage.


I still enjoy playing Ryze. The burst damage build that I tend to play, and the Health Stacking kill monster build you have that works well for early/mid game is great, but if I am stuck in high level games, as I typically am in Solo Queue, I am going to have to run, Annie/Fiddle/Zilean/Janna if I want to keep a competitive edge throughout all phases of the game for me and my team.


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Samus Araan

Senior Member

02-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicosharp View Post
Hey Samus, This is a good guide, and I am a believer in Strength of Spirit now. I've been running 10-7-13 with ignite/ghost and it also works quite well.

Some things I want to point out that are a bit disturbing about Ryze in higher-level play:

-He can not push the backline successfully against solid comps, and even when you go full-tank he will not be effective at late game pushes when both teams have solid positioning. (this is especially true when the true tank initiates and forces you to run back, take stun+insta death from backline, or blow a skill or 2 on him, wasting half a volley that could be used on the backline.)
* The counter arguement to this is that I should still be running Flash, as getting to their backline late game and diving to snare their main dps can make some difference in a fight, but it is not typically enough, even with a solid defensive build.

-To link to the above because of the cat and mouse late-game disadvantage, Ryze is really only effective early game and by outpushing/outkilling and outleveling the enemy team. Late-game dps champs (especially ranged) do more damage, and are harder to shutdown due to regen items, and have better range.

-This means that Ryze helps your team lose games late-game despite your item build due to the simple fact that he is a lackluster caster with no aoe stun/cc/utility to help the team push other then his close range burst damage.


I still enjoy playing Ryze. The burst damage build that I tend to play, and the Health Stacking kill monster build you have that works well for early/mid game is great, but if I am stuck in high level games, as I typically am in Solo Queue, I am going to have to run, Annie/Fiddle/Zilean/Janna if I want to keep a competitive edge throughout all phases of the game for me and my team.
I agree 100%. As I have said before, Ryze is NOT a top-tier hero in my opinion. Annie/Anivia/Fiddlesticks are much much better, and if you want to compete at high-ELO you are much better off choosing one of them.

I am hoping that someone comes along and shares their secret recipe for making Ryze viable at the top levels of the game, but I am not optimistic. I think he is well situated in the middle of the pack hero-wise.


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nicosharp

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Senior Member

02-19-2010

I think the issue is, that he is solid in his current incarnation, but will never be top-tier because of his lack of utility, cc and range. No build atm with current items will fix this. You can still win early and mid-game when you outplay a team, but if you can not push their nexus before late game and they get beefy, you are going to hinder your team in the final pushes.


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Samus Araan

Senior Member

02-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicosharp View Post
I think the issue is, that he is solid in his current incarnation, but will never be top-tier because of his lack of utility, cc and range. No build atm with current items will fix this. You can still win early and mid-game when you outplay a team, but if you can not push their nexus before late game and they get beefy, you are going to hinder your team in the final pushes.
Yup. Most of my wins come at the 25min mark due to surrender. Generally when the game goes beyond 35min my win percentage drops significantly. I think that he has those detriments you listed by design, since he truly is a carry-mage and not a mage-carry. I am happy with him where he is now, and maybe once the metagame changes he will see some top-tier action.