Why minions waves build, and how to do it.

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EveryTimeV

Senior Member

03-10-2011

I asked a question a while ago about why minions would sometimes gain an advantage over my own minions in the lane, I had some mixed replies about RNG and such but the reply that seemed to work most is about the minion spacing.


As an example let's look at how a game like StarCraft works, the closer you are to your own base, the stronger your forces are because of reinforcements, the army closer to their own base reinforces faster and applies more damage causing a snowballing effect that can completely turn a fair fight in the defensive team's favour, the exact same thing is happening in the league of legends.

Whichever team has their lanes pushed back without a substantial amount of reinforcements (from what I've observed it takes about a wave and a half of minions to snowball past the middle line).

There is a point where a minion wave reaches a sort of "critical mass" where there is enough minions to effectively focus fire down waves with little effort or damage taken at all, the longer they're stalled from reaching your tower, the more minions will arrive to reinforce the lane's wave, since the update this became more problematic, why?

Because now the team's wave which already has the advantage can snowball easier, because it takes more time for the super wave to focus down the other wave (due to the new resistances) all the while it takes little damage because of the buffs itself.

When a wave is reinforced with another one, a force of 2x The volume of the enemy team will snowball incredibly hard, so how do you get that amount of force?

First off, kill the caster minions, 1 Or 2, normally 3 Makes the wave move into the other territory too early, the caster minions are the minion versions of DPS units, they hit harder but take less punishment than melee, if you leave 4 Minions left in a wave it's usually enough to prevent massive damage on your minions while getting a second wave into it, after that let the wave progress by itself and see the results, I guarantee you that this wave will become strong enough to sustain pushes by it's lonesome.

Another way to do it, which has become even easier now is to kill the barrage minion, the barrage minions act in the same way as a promoted one does and can quite easily tank waves and stall for reinforcements by themselves.


I hope this helps you understand how the minion waves are forming and getting advantages.


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Kobrakai

Senior Member

03-10-2011

Very good. +1


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ToHiGhToCaRe

Senior Member

03-10-2011

I never really thought about intentionally stacking minion waves... This is a pretty awesome idea.


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Cat Girl Shrek

Senior Member

03-10-2011

OP is making new minions OP


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YoshioPeePee

Senior Member

03-10-2011

I have been noticing my opponents trying to do this in games that I start winning

it forces the winning team to be very careful and coordinated and is a great way to take advantage of a team that gets sloppy once they start smelling victory. It's simply an excellent comeback strategy and can make teams pay for being sloppy and not noticing when your creep waves start to snowball and become a threat. I've gone up to lanes that are in danger and have seen simply ridicuously huge numbers of enemy creeps in one place in the lane. If I had waited till they actually got to the tower to deal with them they could have very easily destroyed it by themselves. (the good news is that if the losing team is especially bad at defending then you can do this to them as well if they have thier second towers still up. If you destroy a snowballed creep wave and then take the time to take out a couple more of the creep lines than your side will snowball right back)


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HighSociety

Senior Member

03-10-2011

what about in ARAM when no one is attacking the waves? pure RNG?


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HClol

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Senior Member

03-10-2011

I've been doing this for ages, works great!


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Shosuko

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Senior Member

03-10-2011

I've been doing this more lately - i just wish my team mates would catch on when I say "leave those melee minions!!"

Especially with the cannon minion coming every other wave rather than every 3rd, if you take out the cannon ball and caster of the NEXT wave, yours will become quite stacked.

At first the minion change really hurt my game, and I didn't like it. Well I still don't like it, but I've adapted and now field promote minion waves to "yi" status while we all "push mid" and lol as side turrets fall down while they stall us out in our advance...


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EveryTimeV

Senior Member

03-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoshioPeePee View Post
I have been noticing my opponents trying to do this in games that I start winning

it forces the winning team to be very careful and coordinated and is a great way to take advantage of a team that gets sloppy once they start smelling victory. It's simply an excellent comeback strategy and can make teams pay for being sloppy and not noticing when your creep waves start to snowball and become a threat. I've gone up to towers that are in danger and have seen simply ridicuously huge numbers of enemy creeps in one place in the lane. If I had waited till they actually got to the tower to dea with them they could have very easily destroyed it by themselves. (the good news is that if the losing team is especially bad at defending then you can do this to them as well if they have thier second towers still up. If you destroy a snowballed creep wave and then take the time to take out a couple more of the creep lines than your side will snowball)

Given that the other teams minions could be behind your outer tower (now destroyed) I believe it's best to only destroy the enemy minion wave to the point it seems to be fairly equal, or ever so slightly weaker than a single wave of your own, here is another trick, if you use your map you can tell where enemy minions are based on your own minions travelling down the lanes (I use this to sneak around enemy team's golems when I jungle sometimes), if you're expecting another wave to arrive soon, better make sure that you also injure that wave accordingly (or you could accidentally cause an enemy minion build-up in the process of trying to create your own, whoops).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shosuko View Post
I've been doing this more lately - i just wish my team mates would catch on when I say "leave those melee minions!!"

Especially with the cannon minion coming every other wave rather than every 3rd, if you take out the cannon ball and caster of the NEXT wave, yours will become quite stacked.

At first the minion change really hurt my game, and I didn't like it. Well I still don't like it, but I've adapted and now field promote minion waves to "yi" status while we all "push mid" and lol as side turrets fall down while they stall us out in our advance...
I highly recommend setting up minion waves if you're expecting a skirmish in mid/any other lane, so that it plays out as you said and causes the minions to take side towers for you.


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Cerevus

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Senior Member

03-10-2011

I've been doing this for quite a while using Soraka and Alistar.

On Soraka it's pretty simple. I'll Starcall a few times to weaken the enemy wave and then, when there's a cannon minion, I'll make sure to focus my heals on it if they aren't needed elsewhere. This also works great when the cannon minion is tanking a turret, since her heal will give a small armor buff, allowing him to last longer. Late game I can walk around with a super minion and it's like having backup.

On Alistar I rush an Aegis so that my creep waves will get all of those bonuses. Most of the time I'll play with a friend and we'll both build an Aegis to really boost the power of our creep waves. Stacked and double-Aegis boosted creep waves are wicked OP.