Ashe versus Teemo in mid

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Thinkdealer

Senior Member

03-09-2011

I love the junior member spewing **** he doesnt understand... He doesnt get the meaning of COUNTER. It means you have an ability the lessens the effectiveness of the other champion. Wtf does ashe have that makes teemo a worse champion? Nothing. Katarina is a HARD COUNTER to mundo dummy. So is most other champs with spammable grevious wounds ablities. Just because you can own a noob teemo at mid as ashe doesnt mean teemo isnt a counter as ashe.

A teemo and ashe of equal skill at mid, teemo will always win. Also isnt at level one the crit chance per second like 3%? And also isnt it reset when you last hit a minion? So i call bs on that dude.


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Vimous

Senior Member

03-09-2011

Hi Dhania,

I posted a very similar post little over half a year back. I would like to shed some light on to how you can beat teemo 1v1.

Teemo's base stats are better and yes he is built to counter you.

My basic strategy vs teemo is to get my saved up crit off on teemo followed by a volley. Will usually bring him to half hp. From there, just keep him at bay with volley. Be sure not to waste volley. Takes time, but always fire volley knowing it will land. Otherwise you will just be pushing your lane with no gain.

If teemo is agressive. Just keep saving that crit... go in and crit.. he will q you... then you volley. And move back.

Also, work on your "dance". And what I mean by that is... you move in to attack... teemo will move back... when you move back... teemo moves back in. Keep doing it till you can land a safe hit. Again, takes practice, but at your elo (judging from your original post) should be easy.

Once you get your ult, its all down hill for teemo. You should have three points in volley by now. So cd is not terrible. All you need to do is... save your crit... auto attack... volley/ ult (depends if there are creeps seperating you, you want volley to land)... by the time stun wears off, you are no longer blinded and his q is still on cd... and most likey he will run away...and you chase him down with frost shot. Be careful if he has ignite. Could spell your death if you were low hp as well when initiated.

I hope this was helpful.

P.s. investing in mp5 per lvl glyphs and seals will do you wonders. All your mana issues will be solved.


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locke03

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Senior Member

03-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vimous View Post
Hi Dhania,

I posted a very similar post little over half a year back. I would like to shed some light on to how you can beat teemo 1v1.

Teemo's base stats are better and yes he is built to counter you.

My basic strategy vs teemo is to get my saved up crit off on teemo followed by a volley. Will usually bring him to half hp. From there, just keep him at bay with volley. Be sure not to waste volley. Takes time, but always fire volley knowing it will land. Otherwise you will just be pushing your lane with no gain.

If teemo is agressive. Just keep saving that crit... go in and crit.. he will q you... then you volley. And move back.

Also, work on your "dance". And what I mean by that is... you move in to attack... teemo will move back... when you move back... teemo moves back in. Keep doing it till you can land a safe hit. Again, takes practice, but at your elo (judging from your original post) should be easy.

Once you get your ult, its all down hill for teemo. You should have three points in volley by now. So cd is not terrible. All you need to do is... save your crit... auto attack... volley/ ult (depends if there are creeps seperating you, you want volley to land)... by the time stun wears off, you are no longer blinded and his q is still on cd... and most likey he will run away...and you chase him down with frost shot. Be careful if he has ignite. Could spell your death if you were low hp as well when initiated.

I hope this was helpful.

P.s. investing in mp5 per lvl glyphs and seals will do you wonders. All your mana issues will be solved.
This is good advice. As others have said, in a 1 to 1 exchange Teemo is generally going to out DPS you and if he doesn't kill you directly his poison likely will. I've done pretty will with Ashe against Teemo though by taking 0/9/21 masteries, ArPen reds and quints, and mp5lvl yellows and blues. Start off with a regrowth pendant (get a Philosophers Stone ASAP) and Volley. His range is short,Volley does a good bit of damage early on, the Regrowth Pendant should let you make a few mistakes, and your mana regen should let you spam volley whenever it is up.Don't push even if you can, be defensive, farm mid or a bit closer to your tower, taking potshots at teemo when you get a chance. If you can get him down to about 1/3 health by the time you hit 6, stun him and go for the kill, or call for an easy gank.

Also, invest in vision wards. Ashe is already slow and squishy, if you run into a mushroom at Teemo is anywhere close, you are in real trouble.Stick them in a bush so your jungle/gank is't revealed by a shroom and stick close to that side. Also, don't forget that your arrow stuns longer the further away you are. If you use it right on top of him, he is't going to have hardly any down-time. Fall back behind your tower before letting it fly.


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LeJamon

Member

03-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by bootbabe View Post
I love the junior member spewing **** he doesnt understand... He doesnt get the meaning of COUNTER. It means you have an ability the lessens the effectiveness of the other champion. Wtf does ashe have that makes teemo a worse champion? Nothing. Katarina is a HARD COUNTER to mundo dummy. So is most other champs with spammable grevious wounds ablities. Just because you can own a noob teemo at mid as ashe doesnt mean teemo isnt a counter as ashe.

A teemo and ashe of equal skill at mid, teemo will always win. Also isnt at level one the crit chance per second like 3%? And also isnt it reset when you last hit a minion? So i call bs on that dude.
I think you misunderstand me semantically. Katrina's bouncing blade does "lessens the effectiveness" of Mundo's ultimate. This is true.

However, Katrina does not counter Mundo. If we take the hero's as a whole and understand then we can understand counters better. If an enemy team picks Mundo there is no team that would counter pick Katrina because she's such an awful champion. Because of this, to me, I wouldn't call Katrina a counter to Mundo.

In the same way, Ashe is not countered by Teemo. If the enemy team picks Ashe I am not going to counterpick Teemo. I'd pick a hero like Cho'gath who beats her in lane, who blocks arrows in late game teamfights, and can do a large amount of damage to her via ultimate.

When I consider whether or not one hero counters another I look look at both heroes holistically. Whereas you and these other forumers take a limited viewpoint. Only considering that Teemo can blind Ashe and Teemo out dpses Ashe in a straight up fight.

Completely ignoring the fact that if a hero has an advantage early game is not as powerful late game the early game hero must either deny farm, or kill the enemy champion. I propose that this is not the case in Ashe vs. Teemo. I conclude that if Ashe runs hp regen quints, strength of spirit masteries, and boots-pots/armor-pots then Ashe can stay at least even in c/s against Teemo.

This is why I consider Ashe to counter Teemo. Because she can stay even with Teemo early game when Teemo has the advantage, and late game Ashe is straight up better than Teemo.


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Sir Kriedemann

Senior Member

03-09-2011

I am a pretty frequent Ashe player as well and also play mid ALOT!! :P when i first started playing i was always having issues, however i kind of learnt (self taught and exp), that Ashe is best played in the mid by continually moving. It might sound silly, however keeping her movement random and staying out of range it is actually a good thing. Mind you thou there is that weakness of being ganked, but hey if u get ganked very early in the game there is not alot you can do about it lol.

A nice trick i use early in my games is just attack in close with ur volley when u have a full minion wave at ur disposal, then once u fire off ur volley retreat slightly, and then use ur distance to pick on the minions. AKA when the hand to hand get into range of ur caster minions, and let ur minions take a the damage, try and do the one shot kill. The easiest way to expalin it or show it, is by having a look at how nasus plays when he is trying to get his strike up.

i foget the techical name for it however if u delay that theory with Ashe you will be surprise how much income u will have coming in and then also giving you plenty of time to fend off any one really.

My last tip is as well, in the early game, if you are in mid, use the two pathways that are near the mid section of water, you will see them left and right of ur tower, this is also very useful for you as well, because it give u more room to maneuver and also you can volley your shot across it as well.

So yeah just keep Ashe moving and volley as much as you can. However use her range to your advantage.

best of luck to ya, she is really one of the best and extremely fun to play with


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Call Mee Maybee

Senior Member

03-10-2011

Dear LeJamon,
You sir, are ******ed. A champ with a long-ranged blind is the definition of a "counter" to a champ who's damage is mitigated by blind. Not to mention the fact that the dart hits squishy ashe for a good deal of damage.
Good rule of thumb to live by.. when multiple unrelated people are telling you that you are completely wrong, and no one is agreeing with you, you are probably wrong.

Sincerely
Someone who understands the concept of a counter


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StoRmRAiL

Senior Member

03-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsack View Post
Dear LeJamon,
You sir, are ******ed. A champ with a long-ranged blind is the definition of a "counter" to a champ who's damage is mitigated by blind. Not to mention the fact that the dart hits squishy ashe for a good deal of damage.
Good rule of thumb to live by.. when multiple unrelated people are telling you that you are completely wrong, and no one is agreeing with you, you are probably wrong.

Sincerely
Someone who understands the concept of a counter
LOL

nice one, and yeah jamon, teemo ****s up an ashe mid as long as he knows what he's doing


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supernoobss

Member

03-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by LateralGrudge View Post
Theres a few things i see wrong with this:



Right off the bat we have an outlandish exaggeration. At all? really? Teemo's Q does NOTHING to ashe's DPS?



Minions clash at 1:55: teemo takes first potshots at ashe, ashe backs off. Teemo stands next to the melee clash, and suddenly ashe can't last-hit ranged creeps, as teemo can potshot in response.



1: just because you win your lane doesn't mean your champion naturally counters your enemy. Katarina/Trist counter hp-regen champions like Mundo.... but MF doesn't have any direct counters for Ez, but can still win the laning phase by playing aggressive with Q and W. 2: see above for what teemo can do to stop ashe's farm.
Teemo does not counter Ashe. Just because Teemo has a skill that can blinds does not make him a ranged-dps counter. It is like saying any champs with silence are hard counters to casters. Teemo is best at map controlling and doing significant damage before fight begins. As for standing besdie melee clash, you probably had this theory in mind, but you most likely did not test it yourself.


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Siky

Senior Member

03-10-2011

To keep on topic:

There are really only 2 parts to Ashe vs Teemo.

1. Teemo controls middle of the lane, Ashe is closer to their Tower.
Teemo with Flash + 1 point in W isn't going to get ganked in this position. Impossible. The threat of a Jungler gank is not present because the Jungler and Ashe would be at more of a disadvantage if this happened (due to giving Teemo level 6 first basically).

If Teemo moves past the middle, then Jungle gank is more of a threat and if the Ashe needs it, the Jungler SHOULD come. If no Jungler, you have to rely on pure skill.

2. Teemo plays cautious and stays close behind their minions and only rushes forward to harass Ashe when Q is up.
Biggest problem I find is that Ashe only has 2 options and most Ashes panic resulting in a loss in most cases. You have to pay attention to how many HP Pots you have vs Teemo, if Teemo has more HP Pots than you, equal trades means Teemo wins and you can derive this from what item Teemo starts with.

Cloth Armor = 5 HP Pots
Boots of Speed = 3 HP Pots
Everything Else = 1-2 HP Pot
+Teleport

Burning Teemo's Teleport if he has it is a key part to lowering his gank ability. If he runs it, you should make it your goal to burn it as soon as possible at least.

Solution: What can Ashe do?
Stay back, walk forward to last hit or get exp and if Teemo walks forward, abuse your range. Auto-Attack until you are actually hit by Teemo's Q before you attempt to Volley. Just auto and walk backwards away from the minions. Teemo will be forced to either take the damage and retreat to safety or keep going and position themselves for your Volley. You HAVE to immediately target Teemo when he's in your range, even before is better than after, but you really want to lead him past his minion line when he tries to harass you.

Remember: Your auto-attacks still hit until Q actually blinds you, most people Volley as soon as they hear Q's sound effect or do on instinct to a possible Q attempt. DO NOT DO THIS. You want to get as many auto-attacks out as possible before getting blinded before you Volley. You cannot Volley twice in a fight before level 6 with Teemo so don't think getting an early Volley off works because what happens after that?

A. Ashe with no Volley = Teemo eats the Volley, pops HP Pot, Qs and pushes Ashe all the way back to tower by auto-attacking her to death while she can't do anything.

B. Ashe with Volley = Teemo eats auto-attack, pops Q to stop the damage, gets Volley'd, Frost Arrow on and kite or chase.

The difference comes from the fact that Ashe starting with Volley gets no Auto damage. Saving Volley gives you extra auto damage. Saving your crit is a nice idea, but you need to last hit minions too and you can't volley to last hit or you're going to get chased out of lane.

I play a lot of Teemo and my tactic is always to attack the moment I see the Ashe player trying to last hit. So either way, I deny last hit or I get free damage and Ashe cannot do anything about this except do what they need to do exactly right and that is take the last hit, auto Teemo until blinded and then Volley all while running back after the last hit. Staying in range of a last hit also helps to deter the action of moving forward that signals a Teemo of what you're doing.


This is a discussion about Ashe vs Teemo up to the moment of level 6. Not post-level 6. Teemo can kill Ashe faster 1v1, but Ashe isn't meant to 1v1 anyways after level 6, her job is to kite and to deal damage from behind her front line and she does a lot of sustained damage. Before level 6, Teemo can deny Ashe of last hits, Ashe cannot return this favor. They deal even damage, except Teemo with smart play can reduce Ashe's damage where Ashe can't do the same against Teemo. Blind and Slow are not equal level CCs.


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Blistful

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Senior Member

03-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siky View Post
A. Ashe with no Volley = Teemo eats the Volley, pops HP Pot, Qs and pushes Ashe all the way back to tower by auto-attacking her to death while she can't do anything.

B. Ashe with Volley = Teemo eats auto-attack, pops Q to stop the damage, gets Volley'd, Frost Arrow on and kite or chase.
If teemo can pop his Q on you, that means he's close to be in auto attack range. And since most teemo players get their W at level3 or 4, he will be able to catch up every time you turn around.


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