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Life Steal Runes

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Setura

Junior Member

03-09-2011

Hy Riot team first of all i wanted too say that i realy liked the Rune sistem, and was wondering if we could get some lifesteal runes ? or would it be too OP for early game

thanks in adwance for coments on this threat

cya all in game


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Focus Sash

Senior Member

03-09-2011

Lifesteal runes (and the complimentary spell vamp runes) are borderline useless early-game, as you would be sorely lacking in enough damage for it to matter.

As far as my feelings on this matter... I'm neutral. I'd like there to be more diversity in runes, myself, but I feel as though the balance for lifesteal runes would be a bit hard to reach. They'd either be useless or too useful.


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crzymdscntst

Senior Member

03-09-2011

If they ever did implement lifesteal runes, they'd likely put in spell vamp too. On that same note, they'd also have to flatline it like they do for Crit runes. They would have to be pretty weak as well as you'd have people who would begin to play Yi with a full attack speed and damage build and never die, because they have a lifesteal percentage from their runes that makes it rather too strong.

I believe the total lifesteal you could reach would likely have to be under 5% for red runes. So 5/9 = 0.6 lifesteal which gets pretty weak unless you focus on only lifesteal runes. This leaves them to make another type of rune that can only be a quintessence without it being "OP". so you take that lifesteal bonus and tweak it up to be good enough for a quintessence and you'd likely see a value of 2% per rune (give or take) which would leave the end result to be around 6%. Now, take a champ that uses attack speed and damage. Now estimate about 200 damage a hit at a 1.3 attack speed. That would figure around 12 health, which in all calculations is weak-ish. If supplemented with proper items, you'd be going for a bloodthirster and be getting about 31% lifesteal and a good chunk of damage.

So me personally, I say that you'd likely want them to be only quintessences that have lifesteal and spell vamp. Lest you be getting around 18% lifesteal from focusing all your runes into lifesteal, and then build a champ like Tryndamere a full Crit build which averages to over 1k damage a blow, at 18% lifesteal... you can see where it starts to get broken. now at 6% lifesteal, he'd only be hitting and healing for 60 health.

So lifesteal in runes would be one of those, better late game things.


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Armitis

Junior Member

03-09-2011

I think that you are looking at it the wrong way. I think the more appropriate way to look at it is how much effective gold value a rune gives you. I think that attack damage runes provide a good baseline to compare other hypothetical runes against.

A T3 red flat attack damage rune gives 0.95 attack damage. If you stack all your reds slots with attack damage, you end up with 8.55 attack damage. A long sword gives 10 attack damage for 415 gold. Meaning each point of damage is worth roughly 41.5 gold. Thus, your 8.55 attack damage from runes is worth roughly 354 gold.

Using the same formulation for life steal, a vampiric scepter gives 12% life steal for 450 gold. Meaning, each 1% of life steal costs roughly 37.5 gold. As such, a red T3 life steal rune, in order to be roughly on par with an attack damage rune would give 1.1% life steal. That would put the approximate gold value per rune at around 41.5.

Spell vamp is significantly more difficult to calculate since there are no items in game that give only spell vamp. The closest item is the hextech revolver which gives 40 AP and 15% spell vamp for 1200 gold. If you subtract out the cost of the 40 ability power from the item (870 gold), that leaves you with 330 gold for 15% spell vamp. This puts the approximate cost of 1% spell vamp at 22 gold. Thus a red T3 spell vamp rune would give around 1.89% spell vamp if it were to be on around the same usefulness as attack damage.

As for the argument that a character with lots of life steal would be too powerful, I find such an argument to be rather ridiculous. If a champ stacks lifesteal, just grab a thornmail. The item acts as an excellent counter to any lifesteal stacking champion. It drastically reduce the amount of life stolen due to the fact that life steal is calculated after armor reduction. Furthermore, the life that is stolen is negated by the damage return he taken from the passive effect.

A more concerning issue would be the stacking of spell vamp since there is no equivalent to thornmail for magic damage. As a counter point, banshee veils are rather ubiquitous and act as a reasonable counter to the spell vamp stat, if not a hard counter like the thornmail is to lifesteal.


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NlNEBREAKER

Member

03-09-2011

Do want lifesteal and spellvamp runes. Would make mah day.


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dirtpoor

Senior Member

03-09-2011

New rune design. First blood runes. A quint at level 1 would give you 10% lifesteal. After you level up they get nerfed down to normal until you are level 18. (no growth in the middle) So from champion level 2-17 the rune would give you 1% lifesteal.

At level 18 the rune would bump up just a bit and give you 5% or something.

(Im not used to the balancing sot he numbers are prolly way off but you shoudl get the idea)


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GNOY

Senior Member

03-09-2011

Useless. Can be interesting for fun purposes though.


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Lord Darius

Member

03-10-2011

I would like to see some spell vamp runes. But i think they would be better on non-mage chars that still do mostly magic damage. AKA Mundo


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Setura

Junior Member

03-10-2011

good point there Armitis didnt realy think it that much throu

on seconde thought i think it would be too helpful for chars that already

posess lifesteal like irelia and not much of a help for thouse who dont


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Srahman

Senior Member

03-11-2011

Lifesteal runes, would defeat the purpose of the items in the field. I'd just get 40% lifesteal for fullout reds, yellows, blues, and quints. But Spellvamp, on the other hand. Would be very useful to us, Casters.


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