[Guide/Discussion] Oh no! We lost a tower early and are 5 deaths behind!

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Vellios

Senior Member

02-05-2010

This is to contribute suggestions/start a dialog for how to play when you're behind. I typically solo queue, and about 1/10 games I have involve a really good comeback by my team: we get behind in kills early, are behind by 2-3 towers by the 15 minute mark, but through conservative play and on-the-spot organization manage to push them back. It's not always a win, but it IS always a far better game.

The snowball effect does not have to be the rule. There are a number of things one can do to mix up the playstyle and make things happen. This will not fix poor champion selection: if you solo queue and are not prepared to play a tank or strong control hero, then you have to face strong hero combinations with your Teemo/Heimer/Ryze/Yi/Evelyn team of fail.

Rather than write a straight guide, I figure a list of suggestions works better (along with situational anecdotes). Please, comment and contribute: I will credit suggestions as they come.

These are things I have seen help keep an error-filled early game from turning into an unstoppable wall of white death:


1: Do not be afraid to ask for a lane swap. If you're facing a Blitzcrank who you just can't seem to avoid his grabby hand, don't wait till you're 4 deaths in the hole and 3 levels behind. Swap with someone in one of the other lanes better-equipped to deal with the heroes you are facing.

2: Wardswardswardswardswards (and Oracle!). If you find yourself in a compromising position against a stealther multiple times early on, it's not going to get any better as the game continues. Carry wards, drop them during team fights, drop them near bushes and hide waiting for the stealther, drop them in the river so you can see incoming ganks. Wards, combined with MIAs, can help slow the avalanche of kills. Knowledge is power. If the lane facing the stealther has fallen behind in gold, swap with a person in the other lane who maybe has a little cash to burn on wards.

Personal Anecdote: I was laning as Sivir in mid versus a Twitch. While he was not able to get kills on me during the laning phase, he still managed to get 4 or so kills early game against my team mates in spite of MIAs being called. He thus became a force once the laning phase ended.
After a couple unfortunate team fights (where we'd lose 2-3 people to Spray and Pray + Expunge funtimes), I started buying a stack of 3 wards (and an oracle if possible/needed) every time I went back in lieu of other items. We waited for them to push a lane, and then would set up a ward near one of the bushes in the jungle near the front tower of the lane being pushed.
Twitch would come sniffing around the bush we were all in, and get stomped. They were down their main DPS and we were able to push them back and get a couple towers down. This caution was repeated every time Twitch respawned: pull back, wait for them to overextend, have wards ready to find Twitch, kill him first and then whatever team mates we could find.


3: It is less important to push back and even out the towers than it is to make sure you do not get further pressed. Trading one of their outer towers for one of your inner towers is rarely, if ever, a good swap.

4: Never walk alone. If you are already behind, raiding their Golem for the buff is generally not the best of ideas.

5: Mind the dragon. Typically once teams get a little ahead (especially if they've pushed the bottom lane back), they will start taking out the dragon every time it spawns. For very cheap, you can throw down a standard vision ward to keep track of it, and execute ganks/steal the dragon, helping swing things in your team's favor.

6: Don't get greedy. Just because you have killed one person and there's another fleeing at 50% doesn't mean that you've caught up. If you're still a couple levels behind, and you don't have some sort of scouting ability (Clairvoyance, TF Ult, Karthus wall, etc), your two chasers will quickly negate any positive effect their kill had.

7: Mind the creep waves. Typically, you can see a big creep wave building up LONG before it hits a tower. If you let a wave of 25 creeps beat on your inner tower, you are in trouble. You are in more trouble if they have a champion join them. It only takes 1-2 people to hold a tower if the other team is pushing. Make sure someone is still taking care of the little guys.

8: KILL ORDERS! Things tend to snowball because teams continually focus the initiator. Figure out who their Carry is, and take it down first. Assign different CCs to different heroes so all your stuns aren't blown immediately. Organize the same way you would on vent.

9: If someone is taking the lead, and their advice doesn't seem completely stupid, follow them. Wait to play the blame game in the load out lobby.

10: Only initiate fights when you can account for other opponents. Scouting/map control/whatever is one of the great snowball stoppers.

11: If you can stem the tide, there's no reason to give up. Games turn around at a key gank, well executed team brawl, or a Baron-thieving. When you're behind, the longer you can stretch it out, the more opportunities you give for the other team to make a game-changing mistake. Of course, if it hits 25 minutes and you're 6 levels (and 20 kills) behind, and they're knocking on your base, you probably don't need to play it out.
F3nr1s, ABYAY

12: Do not neglect your lanes to start chasing champions around the map to try and catch up in kills: there is plenty of gold/xp to be had killing minions, and if they've pushed you back, hey, that makes it easier to set up ganks where they're outnumbered as the lanes are closer together. Roaming around not killing anything (or killing things in 5 man groups) will only help you fall further behind.
dovvntempo (See his post in this thread: 1st page, number 6, for a map about vision control!)

13: Keep all criticism constructive, and don't forget to congratulate good play.
Everyone's Kindergarten Teacher

14: Take a long hard look at your team comp before you decide that you're "losing." Some champions are strong early game pushers/laners, who can get a tower down or a gank off early, but as long as they aren't fed TOO severely, wither in the mid-late game 5 man roving gank squads (examples: Janna, Evelyn, Soraka). Other champs are easily harassed/pushed back early game, but get strong enough with their skills alone to tangle with opposing champs who are as much as 2-3 levels ahead ahead.

15: Edit your build based on what you're facing, and what your team composition is. If there's s lack of tankyness in your team, or if you're up against a strong Annie, there are items to buy to help you not die. If you have a strong healear on your team and you are the "tank" (or even if you're not), pick up the Spirit Visage and watch your health not fall quite so fast.
El Jaun Jinko

16: Watch what items the other team is building with their money! If you see people getting Mejai's stacks, it is DOUBLY important to not feed them (and also to take them out early/whenever possible, because odds are said character is planning to carry).

That's what we have so far. Feel free to contribute!


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F3nr1s

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Senior Member

02-05-2010

Giving up is the worst possible thing to do. Giving up not only demoralizes a team but guarantees a loss. Try your best the entire time and ignore the K/D ratio. By trying your best, you will take advantage of and punish clumsy, arrogant mistakes that the opposing team WILL always make if it is a slaughter 20 minutes in. One bad team fight for them and it will turn a 2 tower advantage into a 1 tower 1 inhibitor disadvantage.

Watch respawn timers. Just because you killed someone does not mean you are homefree. 30 seconds is not a long time, neither is 70 for that matter, when it comes to roaming and free farming. Be careful and have an extra eye one timers once champions start dying. This applies to timers on your team as well. Do NOT charge in to grab a kill if you are the only or second champion up versus the entire opposing team. All that does is maybe snag you a kill but guarantee a massive tower/lane loss.

In base farming. So you lost your first six towers and they are already in your base, are you doomed? Absolutely not. Take advantage of the fact that they need to push through creeps and towers to get to your champions and allow yourself to farm creeps getting to your base without much worry. Make use of your blitzcrank in this situation especially by grabbing enemies and carrying them inside the base. Watch closely for champions with jumps or flashes, however, and do not allow yourself to wander too far out. You can easily farm up to their level and items by being careful in this aspect.


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Drac0nis

Junior Member

02-05-2010

Give constructive or tactical feedback.

NOT constructive: "OMG stop feeding." "If our <insert champion here> didn't suck we would be winning" "Quit dying"
Constructive: "Let's target the low-hp characters like <champion(s) names> first and not focus on the tank" "Save your stuns, lets wait for <kat, Nunu, Fiddle, ect> to initiate their ult and we can stop them with the stun."
"Let's wait for <your tank here> to initiate first, before we start dpsing"

Also tell a person good job when they've done something good, it really boosts their morale. Ex: "Thanks for the haste back their Zilean" "Nice job focus firing down their Annie dps" "Good stun Taric" ect.

If you are trying to convince someone to do something, phrase it nicely and in terms of teamwork.
NO: "TF stop being such a noob and helps us in team battles"
YES: "TF we're really depending on you to help us in team battles, we'll have a much better chance if you would gate over and help us when we engage"


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Gekkonidae

Member

02-05-2010

A+ thread!

I live by most of what is being said here. I more or less simply learned these things through my own experience, but it's nice to see a thread for them. Very helpful

Also, I cannot express enough how badly it pisses me off to see teamates demoralizing other teamates (myself even at times). You're not going to get any better by making your team feel ****pier. In many cases, people are aware when they make a mistake and die. They don't need harsh criticism, they need a helping hand or better suggestions. Best possible outcome lies in effective communication and being nice and helpful to people who are feeling a little down on their luck. Isn't the object of the game to win against the opponents? And aren't you supposed to be trash talking the opposite team anyways? :P


In a worst case scenario, where someone is just being the worst possible uber negative A-hole you could imagine, i find it hilarious to lane up with them until a 3 man gank comes into your lane. time it right. when they close in, flash out and pretend you didnt see them and were going for that golem buff you needed so badly :3 I know it's counter productive, but every once in a while, it's totally worth it


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Tanglewalker

Senior Member

02-05-2010

This post needs to be stickied. I honestly wish every player were forced to read this before playing. I'm so tired of games in which I or someone else is playing poorly, or makes a mistake, and having pubs simply say "omg stop feeding, noobs". Oh, well now that you tell me, of course I'll stop dying, I was under the impression that dying was the point of the game!


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ABYAY

Member

02-05-2010

Very good post, without a doubt.

Many of the crucial facts have already been said. However, I need to point this out.

"If an ally steals your kill, don't whine over it, especially if it's a carry that did it." I ended up losing a game because we had a Ryze get his kill stolen by a Pantheon. Pantheon decided to feed because Ryze wouldn't stop complaining over it, thus causing defeat (He didn't even have Soulstealer...) It drove me crazy because I was hearing it over Ventrilo, so I just left it.

A game is never over until it's actually over. There can be that one team clash that turns in your favor because you all ganked that Fiddle grabbing a Golem buff before the final push, or surprised that group snagging Baron, stealing the buff, and cleaning them away. Although there is a fine line between "possibly winning" and "no chance at all", always look on the higher side. You never know when a match will turn up to your side. (Or end up falling in defeat while at an advantage.)

I guess you quote this as, "Don't surrender unless there's a dang good reason."


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dovvntempo

Senior Member

02-05-2010

if you are down kills and towers, DO NOT make futile attempts to team gank one champion and neglect your lanes. Not only are you sharing the experience of a kill between multiple people, you are losing out on the experience and gold you could've gotten in your own lane.

In a game you are already losing, it's very important to hang on to whatever map control you do have. The worst thing that can happen is to have your minions constantly on your side of the river. They give you vision! No champ can go through the lane without you seeing them! So do your best to defend and cautiously push so that you can take a tower and gain some vision of that part of the map.

If each lane has minions in it, then an enemy player has to cross the river through certain points on the map to get to your side, should they want a gank. In the attached picture, the green arrows represent your minions traveling. The red dots are where I like to place wards, as someone will have to go through that area to cross the river. The purple dots are actually put there by flankd, as it's from his nidalee guide. It's where he likes putting the traps... so try those spots out as well.

You can't count on MIA's. The people you play with aren't perfect, and they might even have TERRIBLE map awareness. Having wards, getting sight, and making sure you know where someone is really helps in convincing someone to head back, and so forth.

Also, figure out what has been the reason / who has been the reason for the team losing. If their shaco is just rolling in the kills, then you might need to pair up teams that have some kind of cc so that one can get away, and/or get wards/ invi wards. If it's a nunu who's been chewing through your team, then perhaps some MR would help. Or merc treads to deal with that slow. Many times, it won't be specific. It'll be some kind of team combo that's been very effective against your team. Just identify how best to counter / nullify it / avoid it and let your team know it should be done.


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Gumb E

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

02-05-2010

Posting in an epic thread.

(Am sometimes an overaggressive TF myself, much to the chagrin of my roommate. Will try to keep this stuff in mind. Sure, I could just go back to playing Nunu/Mundo, but TF is just so much FUN when I'm being a ninja and not drifting towards feeder territory.)


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Vellios

Senior Member

02-06-2010

Bump and added stuff.


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sainthero

Senior Member

02-06-2010

Just try to make it last to late game as much as you can no matter how bad you're losing. An ace of 5 lvl 18s late in a game is enough time to destroy 2 turrets then inhib then directly to the nexus for the win.