Poppy - changes to make her a more competitive, rewarding pick.

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Esperenza

Member

03-04-2011

Firstly, I want to state that I love Poppy, and not just on Twisted Treeline. She's my most enjoyed champion: the ability to pick off a single champion and decimate them with an ability combo is truly satisfying. Of the assassination type champions, Poppy fills the role in the truest, most absolute sense. She has diplomatic immunity to walk up to just about anything and kill that target.

So I don't propose she be reworked, because frankly her role as an assassin is clearly defined, and she fills that role, however limited it may be, in a unique and fun way. This is more about expanding upon some of her lesser known or under utilized mechanics, and ironing out the shortcomings of her character in relation to the games programming, ex - heroic charge

The opportunity to transform Poppy from a Tier 3 or 4 champion with limited functionality on summoners rift to a competitive tier 2 pick with more functionality, viability and rewarding gameplay lies almost exclusively in the ability Heroic Charge. Here's an ability that truly defines her thematically, even more so than diplomatic immunity. It's a gap closer, an escape mechanism and a targeted stun when walls are in play. Unlike most targeted stuns, however, it's really a ****-shot on whether it will work or not, even under conditions that you'd expect it to work. Moreover, it functions as a stun under conditions it has no right to, ex - stunning a target in the middle of a lane. This creates situations that are frustrating and unfair to both the Poppy player and opponent.

The seemingly difficult nature of programming heroic charge (Poppy is a 1+ year old champion and this has never been resolved) to function properly 100% of the time means that it needs to changed to feel more rewarding and to work in competitive play. Here are some ideas to increase it's functionality while reducing the frustration it might cause -

  • Make Heroic Charge always stun, with most (or all) of it's damage being applied only when the target is stunned against a wall. This means there is still a reward for landing that perfect wall shot. Thematically you can explain this away by saying that Poppy "tackles people", pinning them to the ground. This also means that poppy players who use heroic charge as a gap closer during team play will be doing something that has an absolute benefit to the team, rather than now where often you push the enemy away to the determinant of the team.

  • Reduce the stun time by .5 seconds to compensate for this, but add a secondary slow effect to proceed it that lasts for 1 second. The slow increases with level, 20,30,40,50,60%. Thematically this makes sense - if you were tackled by Poppy IRL you'd be dazed and slowed afterward.

  • Have Heroic Charge scale with the highest value between AP or AD. Poppy can be played as either an AD or AP character, so it makes sense that this ability should function as a true hybrid ability.

  • Have paragon of demacia increase the functionality of heroic charge in addition to what it already does. By activating paragon, poppy pushes her target further when heroic charging. This emphasizes it's utility in situations where you want to push enemies backward toward the team, or away from a fleeing ally, as well as increasing it's effectiveness as a chasing or escape utility when you're targeting creeps to hop over.

These changes to Heroic Charge serve many purposes. One, they reduce the randomness and frustration level of the ability for both the poppy player and opponent. By reducing the randomness of the ability and increasing it's utility with a slow, you are adding consistency and a larger, more visible skillset to the champion without removing the joy of landing it's conditional wall effect (added damage). By creating synergy between paragon of demacia and heroic charge, you are adding dimension to the character, rewarding good decision making (using paragon to increase the push back of a charged opponent back toward the team) and punishing bad ones (using paragon to push enemies forward too far during team play) and creating an overall more rewarding, consistent and fun champion.

Secondly, it increases the value of the ability when escaping, chasing or protecting teammates. Her original design was that of a support tank - it makes complete sense to expand her heroic charge so when you paragon of demacia, it can work to protect teammates.

This all adds up to a stronger, more varied champion. These changes make heroic charge a more multi-functional tool, making poppy a better babysitter and should help poppy be a better champion during the laning phase. She'll have a most consistent presence during team fights, too, by being able to disrupt better and by creating displacements in team formation while still being a very good assassin.

I am curious to know what the community thinks of these proposed changes


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MrHaveANiceDay

Senior Member

03-04-2011

Frankly, I like this. The change to the charge makes her more viable in more situations, while the adjustment to Paragon continues to reward those who emphasize the placement/utility of it.


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Pete

Member

03-04-2011

This thread brings up some nice features but I don't agree with
Have Heroic Charge scale with the highest value between AP or AD

Honestly, I don't see why you would play AD Poppy in the first place if all her abilities scale of AP, that's my only gripe.


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Esperenza

Member

03-04-2011

Though I personally prefer playing poppy as an AP assassin, Devastating Strike scales off AD as well as AP. In-fact, it scales off AD at a 1 to 1 ratio. Paragon of Demacia increases your attack damage, and your ultimate increases all sources of damage by a percentage, including physical damage.

The only thing that doesn't scale off AD is her Heroic Charge.


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kaskarn

Junior Member

03-04-2011

instead of having charge be improved by the activation of paragon of demacia, you could simply have the push distance (and maybe even damage?) scale with total movement speed or bonus movement speed (the extra you'd get from boots + paragon). That way, your E and W would still synergize, but in a more incidental way.


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Smiljem

Senior Member

03-04-2011

I just don't play her any more simply because her laning phase is beyond terrible and she literally cannot farm.


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DO3fkfGBDq46u7RT

Junior Member

03-04-2011

I couldn't agree more.
Poppy, to me, is still the coolest champ out there. The only thing (apart from her dire inability to farm) preventing me from playing her is the randomness of Heroic Charge.
Too often have I charged myself or my target through a wall; leading to my death, my opponents survival or even both. Often enemies get charged into a wall without being stunned, or stand stunned in the middle of a lane while I fly against a wall. For a champion with no ranged abilities, losing your gap closer/CC like that is just devastating.

So yeah, a guaranteed stun with a different effect upon hitting a wall would be welcome. Actually, fixing the plethora of flaws in the skill in any way would be most welcome.

EDIT: Not played Poppy that much lately, so I was wondering.. if you get knocked up during your charge, do you still get knocked completely off the screen (an undesirable invisibility)?


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Verzino

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Senior Member

03-04-2011

i dont like taht
her charge should have to hit a wall to stun, it not only make sense - but it would be no fun without taht.

maybe at a slow to it?


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Esperenza

Member

03-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaskarn View Post
instead of having charge be improved by the activation of paragon of demacia, you could simply have the push distance (and maybe even damage?) scale with total movement speed or bonus movement speed (the extra you'd get from boots + paragon). That way, your E and W would still synergize, but in a more incidental way.

The trouble with relating movement speed with heroic charges movement distance directly is that it takes away the choice of not moving enemies further away. As an example, Poppy will often charge a fleeing enemy to close the gap. With Red buff (or phage / rylai's), she can slow the enemy for the team. If you're always pushing people much further away with your heroic charge because of a high movement speed, it may not matter that you have phage, red buff, or that heroic charge has a guaranteed stun / slow, you'll just be granting them escape.

Another example - maybe you want to push an enemy from a fleeing ally but don't want to move a significant distance in that direction, perhaps because the enemy team is nearby. In that case the stun / slow would be enough without the increased push distance, which might put you in danger.


That's where intelligent use of paragon comes into play, and knowing when it's a good time to have a long push and when it isn't. Stuff like that makes the decisions you make in-game immediately rewarding, and it's what makes Poppy as a character right now exciting - landing perfect walls feel gratifying, especially when they save teammates or get an otherwise unreachable kill, as does elegantly setting up a kill with diplomatic immunity, wall combo + death fire grasp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erzin View Post
i dont like taht
her charge should have to hit a wall to stun, it not only make sense - but it would be no fun without taht.

maybe at a slow to it?
You'll notice that one of the key changes I'd to see for heroic charge is to add a slow after the initial stun. And yes, while I would prefer to see heroic charge stunning all the time, much like other targeted stun abilities that characters like Sion, Taric and Pantheon have, I still feel that landing the wall should grant a reasonable extra, like bonus damage. We don't want heroic charge to be less rewarding, we want it to be just as rewarding to land successfully, but with more consistency.


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Esperenza

Member

03-05-2011

bump


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