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Gragas item builds?

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the60ftatomicman

Junior Member

03-13-2010

Tellin all of ya... CD/AP yes, but get AP items with spell pen. It works better late game with your Donkey Kong barrel throwing.


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Ferg

Senior Member

03-13-2010

Regardless of the fact that I don't know exactly how high CD caps at (I think it's 40%) my record stands for itself. I personally go Tooth, Boots 3, Void Staff, Lichbane - games are almost always done by now but if not grab the 100+ AP. That'll give you the Spell pen (as you should have the 15% from masteries too) you need and the AP along with the massive CD for barrel/ult spam.

As a side note; Ignoring the content of my post to focus on a slight mechanical error is a poor way of "proving" anything. It just shows that you know more about the mechanics which does not necessarily make your point about AP Gragas discount mine.


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HOLYCOWBATMAN

Member

03-13-2010

Quote:
Ferg:
Regardless of the fact that I don't know exactly how high CD caps at (I think it's 40%) my record stands for itself. I personally go Tooth, Boots 3, Void Staff, Lichbane - games are almost always done by now but if not grab the 100+ AP. That'll give you the Spell pen (as you should have the 15% from masteries too).


i stopped reading there........ you are even more clueless than i originaly thought. I think i just proved my point.


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Ferg

Senior Member

03-13-2010

Archanic Knowledge mate. Again, nerd out harder, you -still- are only going with poorly formed character defamation rather then valid counter-arguments to the primary clause of the argument. The fact that you stopped reading "there" is clear as you've once again proven that you can't actually make an argument against what I'm suggesting.


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HOLYCOWBATMAN

Member

03-13-2010

Quote:
Ferg:
Archanic Knowledge mate. Again, nerd out harder, you -still- are only going with poorly formed character defamation rather then valid counter-arguments to the primary clause of the argument. The fact that you stopped reading "there" is clear as you've once again proven that you can't actually make an argument against what I'm suggesting.



when the base of your 'argument' are wrong....... how can we take anything else you say seriously?... just like your suposed 'record'.... i just looked at it:


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Ferg

Senior Member

03-13-2010

*sigh* Sorry for feeding the troll guys. You still ignore the points I've made and the others which have been brought up supporting the AP/CD with some spell pen. The "base" is AP effectiveness with supporting arguments from CD which my values were off by 10%, not a major mistake. You've underlined a problem with my masteries being incorrect yet I'm still unsure as to what was wrong with what I wrote.

Also what you should have gathered from looking up Ferg and not finding it isn't that I've been lying but rather that my forum name isn't the same as my gamertag. This is 1+1 stuff man. I've already stated earlier in this thread what I go under, I'll let you look that up.

The last 3-4 posts you've made are nothing but trolling me and can be synthesized down to "stfu noob!" as far as content goes. It was my mistake for allowing myself to be baited and as the saying goes; "Don't argue with [trolls] they'll just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."


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HOLYCOWBATMAN

Member

03-13-2010

Quote:
Ferg:
*sigh* Sorry for feeding the troll guys. You still ignore the points I've made and the others which have been brought up supporting the AP/CD with some spell pen. The "base" is AP effectiveness with supporting arguments from CD which my values were off by 10%, not a major mistake. You've underlined a problem with my masteries being incorrect yet I'm still unsure as to what was wrong with what I wrote.


i will let you figure it out... thats some basic math... ( and you said u could do 1+1... now try 6+3 and you will get your anwser.. )

Quote:
Ferg:

Also what you should have gathered from looking up Ferg and not finding it isn't that I've been lying but rather that my forum name isn't the same as my gamertag. This is 1+1 stuff man. I've already stated earlier in this thread what I go under, I'll let you look that up.


that statement is false, as most of what you are saying... it might be part of your beleifs... but facts > beleifs...

so plz stop pulling random stuff out of your hat and get your facts straight first... then i might look at the rest of your .... i dont even want to say the word...


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Hashishim

Senior Member

03-15-2010

Final thoughts on Grag:

Definitely my favorite hero. I still think overall an aura build is probably the strongest, though lately I've been getting away with an AP build.

5 pots, 1 elixar of fortitude to start

Lane and be aggressive against squishies, get body slam and drink to maximize your staying power as well as farm. (Barrel requires mana to spam and are easily dodged)

Grab Catalyst

Get boots

Finish Rod of Ages--if you did this before 18 to 20 min mark you should be okay?

Get merc treads or whatever you like

Finish Soulstealer

Finish Rylai's

Lichbane if the game isn't over

Last item...honestly up to you, but remember to pot up on at least blue and red elixar before getting that final purchase.

Skills:

Get barrel last. With this build barrel's dmg won't really be noticeable until later anyway. Slam is just a much better harass skill and will get you kills early.

Item choices:
To me Grag has two signature moves. He takes a drink, slams into someone, then hits them for a ton of damage (early game). Lichbane is there lategame to continue this playstyle. Rylai's will get his slam slow up to a whopping 50% and it is one of the most spammable slows in the game. Use it often to make retreating enemies crawl.

Rod of Ages first for the hp/mana boost. You'll need it because you'll be pretty frail for a tank, and for some reason you will get focus fired.

Soulstealer next cuz after the Rod it honestly shouldn't be hard to get some charges. 6 to 10 and you're doing well.

Rylai for more hps plus the many slows you'll be throwing. Because your skills don't benefit the team as much lategame, having the slows at least help.

Lichbane so now you go back to hitting like a truck. Should be around 400 extra dmg on top of roughly 180


Again, I don't think this will work in higher elo simply because I don't see you building more than the rod and the soulstealer before the decisive fights take place. But it works where I'm at right now, though most games are over after the rylai, which is around 35 to 40 min.

In response to those who build pure tank gragas, here's why I don't like it (though if its your thang go for it): You have no stuns, therefore you cannot disable anyone
You have a cask ult which is nice, very nice in fact if the other team is kinda disorganized. But the cask becomes less effective if they play around it and position smart.
Your barrel will be laughably weak and ignored. Your slam will do little dmg, since you have nothing adding to your AD.

I'm not saying he's not a fat tank, but a tank needs to add more to the team than just soak dmg. Otherwise a smart team will just ignore grag and ff the squishies. He has no way to protect the backline. Here's what the other tanks can do:

Alistar: Amazing CCs. AOE stuns and knockbacks galore + heals.

Rammus: taunt = 1 hero out of the fight.

Singe: Toss will get someone off your squishy, though kinda weak.

All of these skills are better choices than slam, which doesn't save teammates unless they're running, in which case that teamfight is over. Ult can be used once, then you're done.

Anyway, that's why I don't like tank grag. If you're doing well as tank grag, keep up the good work. I just personally don't see the threat level on someone with only hp and no dmg of any kind to throw around AND isn't providing auras.


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DÓA

Senior Member

03-15-2010

Here is why I disagree with Hashi:

As blatant from my previous post, I build Grag as a tank/auras with damage leavins (brutalizer typically in the mix somewhere)

The thing I do not like about AP Grag is that he is not as good as other AP heavy toons. The same can be said of tank builds, this is true... same for AD.

So what do you bring?

You are a support mainly imo. Your true helpful team tidbit is tossin kegs. If other AP toons can do it better, you have to find a better niche.

When I build tank/auras I am in the lane all day, every day. Booze drink + smash is great for last hitting and farming. More importantly tho, when coupled with a decent carry or nuke, I might as well be putting that kill up on a tee for him.

Keg in a squishy, slow them for the carry... watch the lolz. If your carry has any kind of CC whatsoever, its gg. Even without, your body smash cools down so quickly you can usually get two slows off before they can get away. Thats still gg.

Plus, now in a teamfight I typically have 3 auras on me for my allies. They have more armor, more resist, steal life, and regen mana. We push like crazy. You try to gank? I keg so the squishies get away, then lunge my fat at you to slow you down. Focus on me? You better hope I am not near the forest as it will be annoying as heck to kill me. Sure, I can still be killed. But as a tanky-er build I will take a beaten, and my body smash is going to make it take a lil longer to finish me off.

Now i am not just some AP less powerful than many caster who is still slightly squishy because I had to buy every AP item under the sun instead of armor/resists/auras. I can help a full team push, I can help us get out of ganks, and I can help separate their carry for us to nuke.


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inept

Member

03-15-2010

ive had the most success with AD/tank gragas, 11-2 with it now and I carried most of the games.

doran shield + hp pot
brutalizer
phage ---> frozen mallet
banshee veil
thornmail
bf --> bloodthirster (game rarely goes this long)