Philosopher's Stone VS Catalsyt of the Protector: Which is best to rush?

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Fluffyburrito

Senior Member

02-18-2011

I used to rush a catalyst for my first item on almost any champ I play, (Mostly Casters/tanks) but lately I've been rushing a philosopher's stone instead. What's your opinion?

Philosopher's stone stats:
+22.5 Health Regen per 5 sec +10 Mana Regen per 5 sec Passive: Gain an additional 5 Gold every 10 seconds.

800g (365 assuming you go for a typical regrowth pendent at start, which has 15 health per 5 seconds)

Builds into:

Shurelya's Reverie
+330 Health +30 Health Regen per 5 sec +15 Mana Regen per 5 sec UNIQUE Passive: Reduces ability cooldowns by 15% UNIQUE Active: Nearby champions gain 40% movement speed for 3 seconds (60 second cooldown) (1400g for upgrade)

Catalyst of the protector stats:
+290 Health +325 Mana Passive: Restores 300 Health and 250 Mana upon leveling up.

1325g (925 assuming you start with a sapphire crystal that gives 200 mana)

Builds into:
Rod of Ages:
+450 Health +525 Mana +60 Ability Power Passive: Your Champion gains 18 Health, 20 Mana, and 2 Ability Power every 1 min. Bonuses cap at +180 Health, +200 Mana, and +20 Ability Power. (1710 gold to upgrade)

OR:

Banshee's Veil:
+375 Health +375 Mana +50 Magic Resist UNIQUE Passive: Blocks one negative spell every 30 seconds. (1390g to upgrade)

In my opinion:

Philosopher's stone vs. catalyst:

I see a lot of people rushing a catalyst on casters especially, but it doesn't seem to match the philo stone nearly as well. Being able to start with a regrowth is a heck of a lot better for the laning phase than having to start with a nearly useless sapphire crystal. I used to think the catalyst was amazing for the passive but honestly, the fastest I can afford it (if I don't go crazy and get 2-3 kills) is at level 6. By then, I'll only get 2-3 uses out of it before team fights really start happening. Also, the philospher's stone is incredibly cheap to upgrade, meaning you can get to your boots a lot faster. The flat health and mana given by the catalyst doesn't seem to hold near as much water as the regain and extra gold from the philosopher's stone.

Philosopher's stone upgrades vs Catalyst upgrades:

Ok, this is where I see that the Catalyst might hold out. Being able to have that flexibility to choose between BV or RoA, depending on how the game is going, seems great. However, I've started straying away from the RoA in general as it is extremely expensive to upgrade to and won't usually pay off until late game. I would much rather use that 1710 gold to start building something else. (I do admit it has a bit more damage but the AP is a little bit low imo compared to something else I could be building already, like a deathcap. And you really do have to rush it before anything else if you want the RoA to be the best it can be) BV, however, is an amazing item overall for the spell block and against magic heavy teams. If I'm tanking or if enemy casters are dominating it's a toss-up but I've started to forget rushing a catalyst, still go for a philosopher's stone, and then get boots and a BV anyway.

SR is the only philo-stone upgrade, and I hardly see anyone else upgrading to it later on. It's just amazing though. More regain, some extra health, CD reduction, and a fantastic built in escape or chase ability that affects everyone around you. What's not to like?

Overall I've started liking the Philo stone more and more and Catalyst less and less, even though I see a ton of people rushing to get a Catalyst. Is there something I'm missing that makes the Catalyst better?


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Carados

Senior Member

02-18-2011

Catalyst in every situation. Max HP is a useful stat, HP regeneration is not. Regrowth is not a good starting item compared to the other choices, as well.


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Fluffyburrito

Senior Member

02-18-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carados View Post
Catalyst in every situation. Max HP is a useful stat, HP regeneration is not. Regrowth is not a good starting item compared to the other choices, as well.
Care to explain? I wouldn't think an extra 290 health would be worth it compared to 22.5 health regain per 5 seconds.

Throwing numbers out there it'd take about a minute to regain 290 health with the philo stone. Granted, the catalyst might help more in extreme harassment situations.


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Arrivederco

Senior Member

02-18-2011

Philo Stone is great on certain champs.

Gives you a lot of lane sustainability. I run early Philo Stone Swain with Gold quints, for example.


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Doriantv

Member

02-18-2011

Philostone isn't as derp as people say it is, but it's not good either.

Also, here's why Max HP is better than Regeneration:

Wild Garen Appeared! Garen used Q/E/R: you were burst down for 1000 damage! But you only had 800 HP, so you died. If you had 1090, you would have survived.

Also, every semi-good player builds Banshee's Veil (in most situations) on every champ pretty much, and Catalyst builds into Banshee's Veil.


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Chaoticon

Senior Member

02-18-2011

Or you live because you regened just enough to stay alive and garen died because he turret dove you. You just got gold from his death and from philo.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

02-18-2011

Philo stone is good if you plan to build a Shurelya's. Otherwise get a Catalyst. Not only does it help protect you a little from being burst down (due to giving you more hp), the burst healing on level up is better for laning with, and it builds into something you actually want, without delaying items for something you don't need. Yes, the philo stone may pay itself back eventually, but until that point you're slowing your build down for no reason, hurting your early game in the process.

No, the philo stone regen isn't going to save you from being tower dived. You may regen like 50hp tops during the process of a kill on you from it - that's not likely to save you. An extra raw chunk of health may.


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Carados

Senior Member

02-18-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaoticon View Post
Or you live because you regened just enough to stay alive and garen died because he turret dove you. You just got gold from his death and from philo.
You regened a total of 14 HP during the entire judgment.


3 armor would've prevented more damage.


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IceTech

Senior Member

02-18-2011

I go with philo stone when playing amumu and i never get catalyst with anyone except to build it into something else.
I dont know why people think catalyst is so great tbh. It costs much and its passive wont really help you stay in lane. Because even if you stay at your turret waiting to lvl up that little 300 health aint gonna help you a lot.
Philo stone has a great health regen and after 25 seconds you've regained 100 health because of it meaning after 1 minute and 15 seconds you got the same effect as catalyst.
And you dont level up in 1 minute and 15 seconds except at really low lvl where you cant afford catalyst anyways -.-

Also if you get philospher's stone you get your money back after around 16 minutes.

I'd say if you had to choose between the two, except if you want to rush RoA, you should buy philosopher's stone.


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IceTech

Senior Member

02-18-2011

And also, no Max HP isnt really better.
Simply because people arent gonna tower dive you when they KNOW you still have that amount of health.
They'll just harass you until you have a little less.
See, sure if they had tower diveded you at that exact point of the game you may would've survived with more max HP. BUT they wouldnt have dived anyway if you had more health. They would've tried at another time where you had a little less HP.


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