Mundo: Carrying more than a Cleaver

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EchoRex

Senior Member

01-25-2010

MobaFire Link

UPDATED: July 30 for revisited itemization.

Links to Build Explanation posts now included in Item Build Section

Beginner's Guide to Mundo Items at the very end of this post.

The Doctor is a beast of potentials, locked inside his abilities, locked away by player perception of his role and itemizations.

The Doctor may look like a big dumb animal, and lets face it, he is a big dumb animal. But you don't have to be one also.

This is not your average Doctor. This is Mundo going where he pleases, by chopping up every last son of a ***** that stands in his way.

Mundo is not a tank, for one major, glaringly huge reason. The Doctor can not initiate a team fight. Mundo can run in and bait, but that is purely at the mercy of the other team on whether to bite or not. And this is ignoring how fully tank built Mundo, even if they build mitigation like intelligent little baddies, there is no reason to attack Mundo first, but three screamingly large reasons to not target him till last.

How to solve these problems? Make your Mundo death walking. Mundo sits at an odd place of having good survivability tools while also having large damage potential. Exploit those potentials and force the other team to notice you or pay in swiftly increasing odds against them.

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First the break down on abilities.

{Q} The Cleaver:
Induces early game rage in everyone you face. Spam happy annoyance. There are many ways you will use this ability. It passes through terrain, it slows, it removes scaling chunks of health from your target, and absolutely most importantly: it forces the opponent to move how you want them to or eat it in the face.

Cleaver costs a large chunk of health for a spam skill, there is no getting around that fact. But! Happy days for those who can land their Cleavers, you are refunded half the health cost for hits. This means while Cleaver is costly to check bushes and poke at the sides of creep waves, it is a legitimate and wise choice to last hit with and should never not be spammed during a fight IF one can master the art of Cleaver Chunkin'.

Most people telegraph when they are throwing a Cleaver. This is good for forcing people to move, but terrible for actually landing one. My only suggestion in becoming truly proficient at throwing Cleavers is to practice these tricks with a friend:

False movement, rush out to an edge as if you are going to throw a Cleaver, turn and run back, if the person moves back into their old position, wing one back over your shoulder then immediately head back to where you were going. The more Cleavers you can toss seemingly out of your back, as it appears to the opponent, the more wary that opponent will be of leaving a creep screen.

Stay on the edge. Even if you aren't actively attacking anything or scoring last hits, you can shut down any movement on that side of the lane. This is another psychological play. If your opponents are staying as far away from you as they can, which they really should, you can last hit with Cleaver spam. This also adds to the mayhem, they will flinch in game or at the least mentally everytime you toss a Cleaver. You are drawing their attention to yourself, allowing your lane mate to farm up, or get in position.

Learn. To. Lead. This is a dual skill of knowing the speed and knowing the size of the hit box. You can literally become proficient enough with both to hit someone who by appearance only was safe behind a creep. This also comes in handy for your secondary role of not letting anyone escape, you can score many a kill and assist by good tosses.

{W} Burning Agony:
This ability changes the entirety of your impact in a team fight. Crowd Control? CROWD CONTROL?! That doesn't stop the Doctor! Snares? You laugh. Stuns? You pause slightly. Fears? Momentary panic removed by the knowledge you're about to murder something.

The key to what kind of impact you have is based entirely upon what kind of battle prescience you can acquire. You have to know when to burst activate this ability, before something nasty is done to you. With Sadism running, you can not care about the cost, but without it negating costs... Many a Doctor has died to his own hands by leaving Burning Agony on when he shouldn't or activating too soon giving him a lower effective health total than necessary.

With Burning Agony, you are exceptionally adept at killing Crowd Control champions. Your job in a good many team fights or baiting maneuvers is to dive straight onto those champions, induce panic, draw a reaction, kill, or failing that, maim those champions. Give your team the full advantage of having a high damage, innate CC reduction, high speed psychopath on the team can give

All with the added benefit of being a main component of your farming

{E} Masochism, or, two top tier damage items for free:
The single most important skill you have starting at level 6. This ability takes Mundo from being the harasser to being the hammer.

As you take damage, and believe me, you will be targeted with this playstyle, you gain in damage. You go from being rather average in damage output, to four or five shotting most mages and carries.

The damage increase is large to the point of negating the need for damage stacking. You have the innate ability to easily hit 200+ damage, non crit, by level 10.

This is the ability that gives you the potential to end a fight with anyone before they can kill you. It also pays for itself in the method of greatly increasing your return on life steal, because, duh, you're dealing twice as much damage.

Not to mention, this is a primary farm ability for Mundo, allowing you to clear creep waves in conjunction with Burning Agony faster than anyone but Sivir.

Word of Caution! Rank One Masochism costs a large amount of health with no return like Cleaver has, it is very easy to push yourself very low health with Cleaver and Masochism spam early game in the face of even light harassment.

{R} Sadism:
The much maligned, the regarded with disgust, the misunderstood, the "WTF-WHY-DID-YOU-LIVE" ability.

You will hear Executioner's Calling and Ignite are hard counters for Mundo. You will scoff and bless the gullible for thinking they can write you off by having those.

A little logic groundwork for you: Reduces the effects of all healing by 50%. A large amount. A game changing amount. But that game changed from you being unkillable short of full team focused burst, to you being killable if only they could weather the violence you and your team is raining down on them.

Like everything else Mundo does, he does in on a monstrous size. The sheer brute amount of percentage based regen produced makes healing reduction less of a counter to Mundo than it does to champions with flat numeric heals.

And this is ignoring the function it has of basically making all of your abilities free to cast and the large movement speed buff to insure you can kite, chase, joust, and close.

This also allows you to stay in lane longer than anyone, through ganks and harassment alike. You can play cautious for a minute, hit {R} and be right back in the fight, all the while soaking up experience and last hitting a little with Cleaver tosses.

Then you buy a Spirit Visage. Heal Reductions, whether from Ignite, Grog Soaked Blade, Killer Instinct, Bouncing Blades, Explosive Shot, or Executioner's Calling, affect the base heal amount. With a Spirit Visage running you heal for 48/66/84 percent if they don't reduce your heals, and if they do reduce your heals, you heal for 28/38/49 percent.

Either way, you're at the least refunding all of your ability costs and extending your on-target time through countering a good portion of the DPS type damage. But remember kids, Burst damage is Mundo's bane due to Sadism being a long duration heal over time instead of healing for his monstrous amounts really quickly.

====

As for skill ordering, I can only point you in the direction of maximum violence, but your lane opponents, lane mates, and general team compositions will dictate your exact progression.

First, Cleaver. Of course. Negligible cost, large-ish damage, maximum harassment.

Second, Masochism. Mainly because the net benefit compared to percentage of health drained by Burning Agony is too low at level two. This also allows you to start last hitting minions more reliably.

Third, Cleaver, more damage, more harassment, still negligible cost.

Fourth, Burning Agony. By now you probably need the additional damage for fights and farming, not to mention the CC reduction. REMEMBER TO NOT LEAVE IT ON FOR MORE THAN SHORT BURSTS. Many Doctors kill themselves with poor use early game.

After that... Cleaver and Masochism take alternating picks, with Sadism ranks immediately at six, eleven, and sixteen, you will be wanting the upgraded heal percentage badly at those points. By level 13 or 14 I normally have rank two Burning Agony also, for the added farm and cc reduction help.

====

Summoner Spells: This is really a matter of personal preference I've found. Nothing screams itself as mandatory for this, though Exhaust is very close. I always, always, take Exhaust.

I alternate between Cleanse and Heal. (Including the masteries for each)

Heal has a great impact early game, making tower dives and gank reversals much easier and more likely to succeed. Late game it adds a decent burst of health, I normally use it to counter the initial cost of Sadism, which works to amazing effect.

While Cleanse combined with Burning Agony and, if you feel like being a total ******* to their mages, a Banshee's Veil gives the opposing team the impression you cannot be CC'd period, especially when paired with a Quicksilver Sash for countering those annoying heal reduction and Mordekaiser Ultimates. Great times. Allows you to break the opponent's line to reach the soft mages and ranged carries in team fights at will.

====

Masteries: I normally run 12/18/00.

Breakdown: >LINK<

Theory and practice behind that:

Increased ArPen, CDR, and some MPen from offense gives you a solid damage increase when combined with the ArPen runes, and some needed help on Cleaver's damage late game.

From the defensive tree, massively increased survivability early game from minion/neutral damage. Can make a large difference in your kills and escapes.

====

Runes:
Red: Armor Pen
(Boom.)

Gold: Evasion or Shielding
(Anti-Carry) (Anti-Mage)

Blue: Shielding
(Needed Resist, helps match natural armor growth with resist)

Quints: Evasion or Movespeed x2 with Armor Pen x1
(Anti-Carry) (Chase) (Boom.)

====

Items: The make or break point for being effective at any champion, or just another worthless wannabe.

This is the largest downfall of the vast majority of Mundo players I feel. They build to try and capitalize with just brute health and regen. Health and regen do not a tank make.

Mitigation is key to taking damage, especially when combined with disgustingly large amounts of regen.

But, there are more ways to mitigate damage than just Armor and Resist. Dodge and Shields negate damage entirely, and both are central to Mundo going where he pleases.

The other aspect is damage potential. Mundo already has it easy to reach respectable damage amounts, but falls short with attack speed (his largest flaw, and one that needs to be addressed).

Since we already have good damage, lets look at the additional ways to increase it other than blind damage stacking: Crit Chance, Crit Damage, and Attack Speed.

This build is made to centralize all three of those, while feeding off of mitigation to keep you toe to toe for longer than anyone else.

The Item Builds:

Start :

Build 1: Boots and Health Pots x3
Build 2: Regrowth Pendant and Health Pot.

Boots choice: I normally run Ninja Tabi. With the previous Runes and Masteries, you will be sitting at 22% dodge with just these. That is a 22% reduction in damage, before armor in total damage a PhysCarry will do to you. That and you only gain an actual ~20% less time in the clutches of CC by running both Burning Agony and Merc Treads rather than just Burning Agony. They are multiplicative not additive reduction percentages.

Yes, Mundo's attack speed is atrocious. Yes, he isn't particularly swooft this early. This frankly depends on team match ups. If you're going to be playing Mundo like this, you really need to already know how to choose your own boots based upon match ups.

Build v1 is oriented towards massive damage to champions as quickly as possible, very farm reliant due to elixir usage. >>>LINK TO BUILD EXPLANATION<<<

Build v2 is oriented towards quick pushing and beating high survivability champions. >>>LINK TO BUILD EXPLANATION<<<

Quick Match:

Build v1:
Spirit Visage
Ninja Tabi or Mercury Treads
Green Elixir ****Continuous Green Elixir usage starting when you make your first recall****
Avarice Blade
Atma's
Brutalizer

Build v2:
Regrowth Pendant
Spirit Visage
Ninja Tabi
Brutalizer
Recurve Bow
Negatron or Chain or CoAgility, enemies dependent

>Cheap investment, huge return when combined with the for free damage of Masochism.

Long Match:

Build v1:
Spirit Visage
Ninja Tabi or Mercury Treads
Green Elixir ****Continuous Green Elixir usage starting when you make your first recall****
Youmu's Ghost Blade
Atma's Impaler
Executioner's Calling
***Preferred last item: Infinity Edge

Build v2:
Force of Nature or Atma's Impaler, enemies dependent
Ninja Tabi
Youmu's Ghost Blade
Stark's Fervor
Spirit Visage
***Preferred last item: Force of Nature or Atma's Impaler

Last slot is a team composition and game flow dependent choice.

Infinity Edge. Nothing stands before your crit rate and damage long enough to even noticeably dent your health when combined with Build v1.

Banshee's Veil. Amazing for damage mitigation and increases your health pool appreciably. Blah Blah Blah Mana is useless. Single shot ability immunity against heavy CC teams is worth 400gold "wasted" into mana.

Aegis of the Legion. Another very common choice. Good health, armor and resist with a side of damage. Excellent as your second survivability item after Spirit Visage.

Phantom Dancer, Every single stat on this item is great for Mundo. Easily break crit chance thresholds and give yourself some room to ignore PhysCarries. Always a good choice if you can afford it.

Quicksilver Sash. More Cleanse? More slipping out of CC? Beating the "overpowered" Morde into the ground? Laugh as people freak out over you not being stoppable short of expending every CC on the team.

Guardian Angel. You shrug most damage off, and revive if they manage to kill you.

Bloodthirster. As if your damage wasn't borderline ludicrous anyways, you gain even more damage and more survivability.

Madred's Bloodrazor, Armor, Attack Speed, Damage, and More Damage. Beautiful choice if the other team super stacks armor.

Hexdrinker Damage, Resist, and Magic Damage Shield to give your Sadism a hilarious burst survivability against mages. I've been loving this item.

Last Whisper With the removal of IAS in favor of more damage, this item has become rather special for taking out armored out teams.

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How to play:

This is the tough one to master. You are a Carry that has huge survivability, but only if you start timing your abilities and learn to progress your item builds efficiently. The playstyle for CarryMundo is very much an ordeal of learned responses to certain situations.

I play like any other carry, but with the knowledge that I can survive reckless dives and baiting. Usually with the surety of killing at the least one opponent. Not only that, but with Cleavers you can harass as well as any mage or support champion early game, and better than most once you learn the tricks for successfully landing a high percentage of your tosses.

This is done with not trying to always run straight at your opponents. Hanging back, running to the flanks, and sometimes not throwing a Cleaver will allow your opponents to fall into a good situation for you and your team.

Early game: Try to lane against mages or carries, get your psychological edge in now. Harassment is the name of the game. Take last hits where you can, but equally important is driving the opposing champions back. Cleaver spam and positioning behind their caster creeps when your lane mate's champion choice allows ******s their experience. If you can't drive them off fully, your job is to occupy most of their time and energy in avoiding, decreasing their last hitting and awareness of incoming ganks and lane mate positioning.

Mid game: You're either roving for ganks while clearing what ever lane your closest to of minions and the jungle camps in between, or full on farm in a lane blitzing anyone who shows their face. This is where you either make or break yourself based upon knowing when to attack, when to harass and when to withdraw. Nothing but experience can teach you when to differentiate.

Late game: You're killing people, you're ignoring crowd control, you're ignoring damage, you're diving into their entire team casing havoc. Your presence alone at this point should be enough to make mages and carries skittish and apt to withdraw from a team fight early. You have graduated into being the number one target, expect to start piling on deaths without heavy team support. You are psychologically more distracting than anyone else short of Fiddlesticks popping out of no where and being in reach of everyone.

Twisted Treeline:

(Build v1 is currently under revision for TT specific build progression)

Mundo can literally win this map by himself if you are allowed to build halfway. For TT, I strongly suggest taking build v2. The reasoning behind this, is the additional Armor Penetration from the Brutalizer/Youmu's will shred towers and the tanked up champions that you see so much on this map.

Starting at around level six, you control the jungle better than any other champion. You can take any buff solo, including Drake even if you've got your Spirit Visage and a health crystal and Ninja Tabi.

=====

A Dr Mundo Beginners Build:

Ending Items:
Spirit Visage
Mercury or Ninja boots
Last Whisper
Aegis of the Legion
Phage
Youmu's Ghostblade

The boots are decided whether or not the team you are facing is very crowd control or magic damage heavy, take the Mercury Treads; or if the team is heavy on auto attack based champions, take the Ninja Tabi. The Ninja Tabi also potentiate and make Dodge runes an even better choice for your Seal Runes.

If the game lasts long enough you'll want to upgrade that Phage into a Frozen Mallet if you're needing more survivability, or into a Trinity Force to gain more damage output.

Build priority and progression:
Start with Null Magic Mantle and Health Pots x2
-> Spirit Visage
-> Boots of Speed
-> Health Crystal for Aegis
-> Ninja or Merc boots
-> Recurve Bow for Last Whisper
-> Complete Aegis of the Legion
-> Complete Last Whisper
-> Brutalizer for the Youmu's
-> Phage
-> Complete Youmu's
-> Complete Frozen Mallet or Trinity Force

_____


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EchoRex

Senior Member

01-25-2010

RESERVED for when I remember more to add.

This is the basic build, strategy and theorycraft behind the way I've been playing Mundo the past couple months, it survives solo queue and, before my schedule sucked out loud the premades I went against with flying colors.

More of a surprise and havoc build due to Mundo not being considered a good pick overall. People haven't been able to fully counter this build yet when played in conjunction with the team, supporting and receiving support from them.

The largest downside currently for me, is the lack of effective crowd control. Which has me back to playing Morgana and Blitzcrank a good bit. But that is a product of wonky schedule precluding getting to participate in premades very often.
____


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simplygnome

Senior Member

01-25-2010

I like this idea, but I must ask why executioner's calling as opposed to Emblem (to turn into a fervor if you get fed late game), or even a Malady for the extra AS plus damage on hit?

I'm not challenging your idea, merely wanting to know your justification.

Thanks for any answer in advance.

Im definitely going to give this a shot.

BTW, do you find yourself lizarding a lot with this build? It would seem to benefit from it greatly.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

01-25-2010

Cheap crit chance and life steal mostly, puts you in the range of easily hitting 100% when combined with the Phantom Dancers; the heal reduction is an added bonus that helps tremendously with another Mundo and Nidalee, Tryndamere, Fiddlesticks, and Taric.

Yes, the Lizard buff is very beneficial, the added damage is nice and helps with keeping people in range though with as much move speed as this build affords you, keeping up with a target is very rarely a problem. I don't go out of my way to get it, but do grab it everytime I run past a camp that is up.


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Krofek

Junior Member

01-26-2010

What about quintessence runes? Health?


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EchoRex

Senior Member

01-26-2010

Ha. Good catch, can't believe I forgot Quints. I fixed it above.


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Oxygen

Senior Member

01-26-2010

"If you play a tank mundo, you're a DUMBASS"

-Myself in vent yesterday night

I liked your guide, and am likely to give Mundo a try. Will come back with results. I hope he's not 6k, or even 3. brrrrrrrrrrrrr


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Krofek

Junior Member

01-26-2010

Btw what about flash as a summoner spell?


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EchoRex

Senior Member

01-26-2010

I have a friend who swears by Flash for Mundo, but personally it doesn't have the same kind of impact Cleanse(Makes you even less CC containable) or Heal(when used to counter Sadism cost and health spike during team fights) will have on a match.

With this build you're moving at ~450 before using Sadism on the lost cost/mid game build, you have plenty of closing speed when combined with team mates initiating and Cleavers for chasing.

There have been a few times when I knew Flash would have saved a death, or gotten a kill, but not as many times as I've thanked god I had Cleanse or Heal for the above reasons and both saved a death and gotten a kill (or two or three) out of the deal.


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Lumaca

Senior Member

01-28-2010

Hmm, I enjoy playing an aggressive Mundo, as a matter of fact, I just played a game with one.

Comments and questions:

What do you think of Ruby as a starting item? I like getting it because of his passive. Also, it builds to either Warmog (usually my first item) or Aegis (as your build suggests). I have to admit though, I mainly buy it so I have >800 health at lvl 1.

Why no Atma instead of the second Dancer? It costs +-2500 gold, and works fantastic with Mundo and his huge health. When you crit, ppl will feel it through their monitors.


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