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The Top 10 Most Powerful Champions (Lore)

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Kuryaka

Senior Member

05-17-2011

Not dealing with backgrounds and lore beyond the obvious.
Jax is not that powerful. Yes, he's a master swordsman. Yes, his power has been limited through multiple ways, sanctions (AKA less dodge %?) and his lightpost. But he hasn't had summoners DIRECTLY SUPPRESS his abilities like with Nocturne and Brand.
Zilean can see the future and apparently is immortal, but he doesn't have any offensive powers besides time control.

Nocturne's powerful against humans, but really doesn't have physical strength unless given physical form. He basically preys on summoners in their sleep, but they would be able to defend themselves easily if awake.
Summoners seem to be the most powerful in lore, being able to restrain most of the other champions. Given that Fiddlesticks was presumably summoned by a summoner and something happened involving the summoner's death, he would be one of the most powerful champions.
Zilean if the League helps him. Otherwise he's just insane.
Veigar is not really a valid pick because he's not very successful in his world dominating, just mad.
As far as humans/non metaphysical abilities go, I'd say it would probably be Jax. Then Pantheon, haps? Though he might be the equal of Garen/Katarina/Xin Zhao/Irelia as they are Captain of the Guard or equivalent of their city-state.


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Sevaru

Member

05-18-2011

Brand.


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Blunts at Brunch

Senior Member

05-18-2011

What about brand?
He's promised an apocalyptic death upon Valoran, and he knows secrets about the league (shown in his interview with the Journal of Justice). Now, he may just be talking ****, but I believe that isn't true becuase Brand doesn't seem like that kind of person/fire spirit. The summoners of the league are definetly afraid of what he can do, because their keeping him captive, bound by their magic.

Nocturne is pretty badass as well. He can haunt your dreams, and even cause summoners, who are supposed to be extremly powerful sorcerers, to go insane.


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larkhill

Senior Member

05-18-2011

Quote:
DarkfirePheonix:
You missed what I said, I said Lee Sin could WIN against Nocturne as in beat him as in be more powerful, I said Garen could BEAT as in win against as in be stronger then, I never said survive I said WIN and if Garen beats Brand, regardless of how much destruction Brand could make if he loses to Garen he's weaker and that's my point in this world, as far as I see it, anyone from Teemo, To Annie, to Soraka could be the strongest. Do I think Someone like Heimer could take out the powerful godlike Nasus? Hell yeah I do, because this is fantasy, I have suspension of disbelief, I don't try to adhere to realistic idealisms in this sort of area. So no, I never said survive, I said beat, as in destroy, as in KILL, as in be stronger then. Also think about it, in this world there is something called MAgic Resistance and Spell shields, whatever Warwick had a spell shield, or sufficient Magic Resistance? Perhaps he could of resisted the spell? Sure in game MR is mere mitigation to damage but in an actual world maybe it's more then that? We really can't tell now can we?



ok... by that definition, the stealthers, are the strongest character in the game. stealth in, kill the enemy, stealth out. cant defeat what u cant see. game over. end of thread.

as i said before, theres a difference between winning a battle and being more powerful. sure lee sin, garen, jax, and all the stealther's can go in, get a good sneak attack in there and win a battle. that doesnt mean they're powerful at all. brand has the power to burn the world. alistar took out an entire army. fiddle takes out anyone that enters his room. karthus does the same but with an entire swamp... lee sin throws a punch and garen/jax swing a weapon. sure they can win, but they arent winning through power. zilean controls time and is immortal. how could u possibly compare swinging a weapon to that kind of power?

as a sidenote to anyone saying annie, an adult annie would simply turn into what brand is now. i dont see how she could be anything else. she wants to make everything burn. she doesnt want to create an army of pets or learn to have a permanent shield to always protect her. she's a pyro, and the ultimate pyro is brand. its that simple.

as for the items, those are ancient artifacts that the league uses during matches. they dont exist outside the field so they dont matter at all. as for spellshields, they ALL have a limit. none are permanent.


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DarkfirePheonix

Senior Member

05-18-2011

Quote:
Larkhill:
ok... by that definition, the stealthers, are the strongest character in the game. stealth in, kill the enemy, stealth out. cant defeat what u cant see. game over. end of thread.

as i said before, theres a difference between winning a battle and being more powerful. sure lee sin, garen, jax, and all the stealther's can go in, get a good sneak attack in there and win a battle. that doesnt mean they're powerful at all. brand has the power to burn the world. alistar took out an entire army. fiddle takes out anyone that enters his room. karthus does the same but with an entire swamp... lee sin throws a punch and garen/jax swing a weapon. sure they can win, but they arent winning through power. zilean controls time and is immortal. how could u possibly compare swinging a weapon to that kind of power?

as a sidenote to anyone saying annie, an adult annie would simply turn into what brand is now. i dont see how she could be anything else. she wants to make everything burn. she doesnt want to create an army of pets or learn to have a permanent shield to always protect her. she's a pyro, and the ultimate pyro is brand. its that simple.

as for the items, those are ancient artifacts that the league uses during matches. they dont exist outside the field so they dont matter at all. as for spellshields, they ALL have a limit. none are permanent.


Ok, let me ask you this, what is power? What does power mean? By who or by what do you define power? As far as I'm concerned power is the strength or abilities that determine a battle, so what if Brand can burn the world if he can get roundhoused by Lee SIn and destroyed? And oh jeeze Karthus and Fiddles kill anyone who enters, so? Unless one of them is an actual champion or someone proven to have incredible strength and skill then it means nothing, at all. What if Cho' Gath entered Fiddles room? I doubt it'd be an instant kill on Cho, unless that room give hims strength and then yeah he strong...in his room and that's it, not really powerful since you can't use that power. Sure Fiddles might of killed the summonet that brought him in or created him...but maybe he was a mere student, someone not all that powerful, so what if Fiddles killed a lesser summoner? And unless we've forgotten Lee Sin used to be a summoner in training and a good one at that, who's to say he couldn't decide to use that power? Choosing to not use great power and not having great power are two completely different things. You make this out to be so **** black and white when in reality it is far from it, so stop trying to use these lesser arguments of "BUt he haz leet destroy stuff hax" and use "Yes he can blow up a building but anyone can do that with a bomb of some sorts, it doesn't make them powerful now does it?" And THAT is my point


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CARDBOARDWARRIOR

Senior Member

05-18-2011

Quote:
Kuryaka:

blah blah blah Veigar is not really a valid pick blah blah blah


Sure he is. He's bad at world domination, but he's absurdly powerful and dangerous.


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aerolight

Junior Member

05-19-2011

What's the most powerful?
Rock, Paper or Scissors?

:O


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Trylobyte

Senior Member

05-19-2011

It's hard to rank the champions on their in-lore power since power has so many definitions and the lore occasionally seems to cross over itself from time to time. There's power in terms of offensive power, power in terms of defensive power, power in terms of impact on the world at large, and power in terms of League influence and pull. Example, Kayle. She's light on offensive power because once the League started mucking around in her world at Morgana's behest, she had to cut a deal with them to make them stop. In terms of defensive power she's near the top, as she's proven to be more or less indestructible against almost everything - Even magical diseases only give her the angelic equivalent of a sugar rush. Impact on the world, almost none. She rarely leaves the Institute. But she seems to have a good deal of pull and authority in the League itself, moreso than most of the summoners do at times it seems.

Power is a funny thing like that.


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larkhill

Senior Member

05-19-2011

Quote:
DarkfirePheonix:
Ok, let me ask you this, what is power? What does power mean? By who or by what do you define power? As far as I'm concerned power is the strength or abilities that determine a battle, so what if Brand can burn the world if he can get roundhoused by Lee SIn and destroyed? And oh jeeze Karthus and Fiddles kill anyone who enters, so? Unless one of them is an actual champion or someone proven to have incredible strength and skill then it means nothing, at all. What if Cho' Gath entered Fiddles room? I doubt it'd be an instant kill on Cho, unless that room give hims strength and then yeah he strong...in his room and that's it, not really powerful since you can't use that power. Sure Fiddles might of killed the summonet that brought him in or created him...but maybe he was a mere student, someone not all that powerful, so what if Fiddles killed a lesser summoner? And unless we've forgotten Lee Sin used to be a summoner in training and a good one at that, who's to say he couldn't decide to use that power? Choosing to not use great power and not having great power are two completely different things. You make this out to be so **** black and white when in reality it is far from it, so stop trying to use these lesser arguments of "BUt he haz leet destroy stuff hax" and use "Yes he can blow up a building but anyone can do that with a bomb of some sorts, it doesn't make them powerful now does it?" And THAT is my point


o geez... u do realize that brand, in his unrestricted form, has no physical body right? he's the embodiment of fire itself. id love to see lee sin, or anyone for that matter, kick fire. as a test, go burn something and try to kick the fire. see who comes out ahead (warning, kicking fire is, in fact, a bad idea). i dont know what it is about u ppl and lee sin but he isnt all that powerful in terms of lore (or in game really).

speaking of lee sin, stop mentioning his summoner abilities. first off, the thread already said to ignore summoners. that would, reasonably, include summoner abilities and powers. does that disqualify lee sin completely from the thread? i could say that and throw that in ur face, but that would be mean and cruel, and quite frankly, i enjoy tearing apart lee sin from much more interesting angles. lee sin is a monk. he's been a monk for a long time. he hasnt even done any fighting in a long time either. he's been sittin there and burning. thats it. and u know what happened during that time? his eyes melted. willpower or not, this proves that he can still be injured, and quite badly at that. in this case, power > will.

fiddle, while seemingly awesome in his lore, isnt all that grand either. he kills people who walk into his room. problem is, not everyone dies. some people actually survive. sure they dont exactly survive and remain functioning members of society (mutters nonsense about crows non-stop does not count as functioning, especially when u started off as a summoner...). so people that actually completed their summoner training (**cough**lee sin**cough**) were no match for fiddle. what makes u think people who arent as powerful can handle it? i dont know what u mean by "lesser summoner" either. first off, he killed the summoner who summoned him in the first place. ok so we dont actually know if he killed him but we can safely assume he either killed him, ate him, or that summoner turned into fiddle. either way, fiddle is capable of killing lesser by virtue of either past history, or simply being born of a stronger summoner. summoners. the only reason i dont have lee sin as number 1 is that he's still, as terrifying as he is, a wooden scarecrow; and wood has the unfortunate side-effect of being flammable.

speaking of power, i guess i can clarify what i mean by power. i come from a laundry-list of rpg games (final fantasy and all things similar), as well as a few years of WoW where i helped lead hardcore raiding guilds (i played tree/shammy healer for those interested). my look at things numerically. power is, to me, defined as offensive and defensive ability. the ability to affect something, be it through"

• pure dmg- anything from direct-dmg to aoe dmg. brand burning the entire world is clearly more dmg than say, garen chopping a few soldiers in half.
• periodic dmg- twitch's poison
• buffs- sivir's ult
• debuffs- any champ's slow/silence
• shielding- morgana's shield
• healing- soraka/taric
• immobilization-stuns/suppression
• utility- this one's tough to classify. this can best be described as misc. things in this category range from blitz's grab to urgot's transfer (that one also goes in buffs due to giving him MR/armor, as well as debuffs since it slows the person u transfer with). i guess u can call this the support category as well, though i prefer utility as not every support champ automatically goes here.

when i look at someone like zilean, i call him one of the most powerful champions in the league. he controls time itself and is immortal. he doesnt do a lot of dmg, he doesnt heal at all, but he controls time and revives people at-will. by my criteria, i labeled him as a utility-based power. his revive is definitely utility. he has buffs and debuffs, as well as some dmg of course but thats not what makes him so good. he is one of the best utility-champs in the game.

since u mentioned a few champ comparisons, ill use those.

first up is lee sin vs brand.

lee sin has his summoner powers, though as stipulated by the OP, we ignore those abilities, as well as the fact that he doesnt use them at all. his abilities are that of a monk. he has his dmg, which isnt all that impressive. he has some shielding, and some utility/immobilization with his ult depending on how u classify the knockback. i prefer utility as it isnt used for stunning an enemy but moving him.

brand has more pure dmg. as well as more periodic dmg. brand also has better stuns. he doesnt have as much utility or shielding.

due to lore and battle requirements, we have to look at physical appearances as well. lee sin is human. brand is the embodiment of fire. u cant kick fire. u can survive it, as lee sin has proved, but he cant combat it. as i said before, go try kicking fire. (warning, please dont actually try kicking fire. it wont end well).

verdict... dmg + immobilization vs utility/shielding. statistically, brand wins. more dmg, better stun, and the fact that he's fire gets him the victory.

fiddle vs chogath

this one's interesting. cho is a voidborn. he commands vast army's, meaning he's intelligent which foes with utility i guess. he has decent dmg, he has his healing from his passive, which i assume to mean he gets healed when he eats/kills something outside the league (we cant assume the league just gives out random powers. to balance them out. especially with cho who they probably restrict more than anything else). he has debuffs with his silence, and immobilization with stun. his utility in growing in size is what makes him so fearsome.

fiddle wins the dmg category easily. his ult does more dmg to more people. he has more healing with drain, he has immobilization, but i cant really tell who wins this category. an aoe stun/knockup vs single target fear's is tough to call. ill go draw on this. stunning an entire room of people vs fear on some of the most powerful beings in the league (summoners) is too close to call. fiddle also has utility in the flash that comes with his ult. as with chogath, ill assume that the league doesnt just magically give him that power. if he has it in battle, he has it outside the league as well. i did the same for cho so ill do the same here, though chogath's utility is clearly superior here.

as for a verdict, its tough. utility vs dmg. unrestricted, chogath would probably spend his entire team eating the entire world and growing to immeasurable size and health. at that point he's unstoppable. but to assume that means that i assume veigar can do the same with gathering magical power and thats just silly. at the end of the day, cho probably wins this. fiddle's fear probably wont work on a voidborn, and at that point, fiddle turns from fearsome monster to squishy wooden snack.



i wont claim that my methods are perfect. that would be foolish. but when u say things arent so black and white, i have to disagree. when making these types of comparisons, u have to state the categories u base them off of. by using those categories, things can turn from confusing and all over the place to relatively straight forward. u use the xample that anyone ca nuse a bomb to blow up a building. while that may be true, some people can burn the entire world by themselves. others need a sword just to be relevant in the league. garen needs his weapon and can only really cut a few people in half at a time. brand burns a lot more than that on his own. the fact that some need to use bombs versus others simply using the powers they command is the difference.


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DarkfirePheonix

Senior Member

05-19-2011

Quote:
Larkhill:
o geez... u do realize that brand, in his unrestricted form, has no physical body right? he's the embodiment of fire itself. id love to see lee sin, or anyone for that matter, kick fire. as a test, go burn something and try to kick the fire. see who comes out ahead (warning, kicking fire is, in fact, a bad idea). i dont know what it is about u ppl and lee sin but he isnt all that powerful in terms of lore (or in game really).

speaking of lee sin, stop mentioning his summoner abilities. first off, the thread already said to ignore summoners. that would, reasonably, include summoner abilities and powers. does that disqualify lee sin completely from the thread? i could say that and throw that in ur face, but that would be mean and cruel, and quite frankly, i enjoy tearing apart lee sin from much more interesting angles. lee sin is a monk. he's been a monk for a long time. he hasnt even done any fighting in a long time either. he's been sittin there and burning. thats it. and u know what happened during that time? his eyes melted. willpower or not, this proves that he can still be injured, and quite badly at that. in this case, power > will.

fiddle, while seemingly awesome in his lore, isnt all that grand either. he kills people who walk into his room. problem is, not everyone dies. some people actually survive. sure they dont exactly survive and remain functioning members of society (mutters nonsense about crows non-stop does not count as functioning, especially when u started off as a summoner...). so people that actually completed their summoner training (**cough**lee sin**cough**) were no match for fiddle. what makes u think people who arent as powerful can handle it? i dont know what u mean by "lesser summoner" either. first off, he killed the summoner who summoned him in the first place. ok so we dont actually know if he killed him but we can safely assume he either killed him, ate him, or that summoner turned into fiddle. either way, fiddle is capable of killing lesser by virtue of either past history, or simply being born of a stronger summoner. summoners. the only reason i dont have lee sin as number 1 is that he's still, as terrifying as he is, a wooden scarecrow; and wood has the unfortunate side-effect of being flammable.

speaking of power, i guess i can clarify what i mean by power. i come from a laundry-list of rpg games (final fantasy and all things similar), as well as a few years of WoW where i helped lead hardcore raiding guilds (i played tree/shammy healer for those interested). my look at things numerically. power is, to me, defined as offensive and defensive ability. the ability to affect something, be it through"

• pure dmg- anything from direct-dmg to aoe dmg. brand burning the entire world is clearly more dmg than say, garen chopping a few soldiers in half.
• periodic dmg- twitch's poison
• buffs- sivir's ult
• debuffs- any champ's slow/silence
• shielding- morgana's shield
• healing- soraka/taric
• immobilization-stuns/suppression
• utility- this one's tough to classify. this can best be described as misc. things in this category range from blitz's grab to urgot's transfer (that one also goes in buffs due to giving him MR/armor, as well as debuffs since it slows the person u transfer with). i guess u can call this the support category as well, though i prefer utility as not every support champ automatically goes here.

when i look at someone like zilean, i call him one of the most powerful champions in the league. he controls time itself and is immortal. he doesnt do a lot of dmg, he doesnt heal at all, but he controls time and revives people at-will. by my criteria, i labeled him as a utility-based power. his revive is definitely utility. he has buffs and debuffs, as well as some dmg of course but thats not what makes him so good. he is one of the best utility-champs in the game.

since u mentioned a few champ comparisons, ill use those.

first up is lee sin vs brand.

lee sin has his summoner powers, though as stipulated by the OP, we ignore those abilities, as well as the fact that he doesnt use them at all. his abilities are that of a monk. he has his dmg, which isnt all that impressive. he has some shielding, and some utility/immobilization with his ult depending on how u classify the knockback. i prefer utility as it isnt used for stunning an enemy but moving him.

brand has more pure dmg. as well as more periodic dmg. brand also has better stuns. he doesnt have as much utility or shielding.

due to lore and battle requirements, we have to look at physical appearances as well. lee sin is human. brand is the embodiment of fire. u cant kick fire. u can survive it, as lee sin has proved, but he cant combat it. as i said before, go try kicking fire. (warning, please dont actually try kicking fire. it wont end well).

verdict... dmg + immobilization vs utility/shielding. statistically, brand wins. more dmg, better stun, and the fact that he's fire gets him the victory.

fiddle vs chogath

this one's interesting. cho is a voidborn. he commands vast army's, meaning he's intelligent which foes with utility i guess. he has decent dmg, he has his healing from his passive, which i assume to mean he gets healed when he eats/kills something outside the league (we cant assume the league just gives out random powers. to balance them out. especially with cho who they probably restrict more than anything else). he has debuffs with his silence, and immobilization with stun. his utility in growing in size is what makes him so fearsome.

fiddle wins the dmg category easily. his ult does more dmg to more people. he has more healing with drain, he has immobilization, but i cant really tell who wins this category. an aoe stun/knockup vs single target fear's is tough to call. ill go draw on this. stunning an entire room of people vs fear on some of the most powerful beings in the league (summoners) is too close to call. fiddle also has utility in the flash that comes with his ult. as with chogath, ill assume that the league doesnt just magically give him that power. if he has it in battle, he has it outside the league as well. i did the same for cho so ill do the same here, though chogath's utility is clearly superior here.

as for a verdict, its tough. utility vs dmg. unrestricted, chogath would probably spend his entire team eating the entire world and growing to immeasurable size and health. at that point he's unstoppable. but to assume that means that i assume veigar can do the same with gathering magical power and thats just silly. at the end of the day, cho probably wins this. fiddle's fear probably wont work on a voidborn, and at that point, fiddle turns from fearsome monster to squishy wooden snack.



i wont claim that my methods are perfect. that would be foolish. but when u say things arent so black and white, i have to disagree. when making these types of comparisons, u have to state the categories u base them off of. by using those categories, things can turn from confusing and all over the place to relatively straight forward. u use the xample that anyone ca nuse a bomb to blow up a building. while that may be true, some people can burn the entire world by themselves. others need a sword just to be relevant in the league. garen needs his weapon and can only really cut a few people in half at a time. brand burns a lot more than that on his own. the fact that some need to use bombs versus others simply using the powers they command is the difference.


Oh yeah? Did you forget he did in fact say LORE WISE so...you know...in game powers don't account for much unless you're dumb enough to assum these powerful warriors know only about 4 techniques per? Also you forget this isn't a natural world, MAGIC, my friend, and magic can in fact do just about anything, you know, cause it's magic, "OMG he's fire" yes he's fire, but OMG I haz magic and since magic more often then not does not IN FACT follow the rules of physics, oh by the way
"I R FIRE!"
"Very good, now, what happens when fire is hit by a sonic boom?"
"Uh oh!"
*Brand dies*

Herp derp, so instead of trying to use in game as some sorta of backwards basis for a magical world, and whose lore I assume doesn't exactly have all of its information inside the game itself, lore, it's funny like that. So yeah, stop being a **** bro, I was merely stating my ideals on the matter, and then when I give you valid points, you go and bring realism or the mechanics of the game well guess what bro? He said lore, not the game, and if we were to go by the game then anyone is equal to everyone, just build your items right bro. So yeah, try again