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Why do people hate cass?

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Asylumseeker

Senior Member

02-08-2011

Had a few people tell me i have to change character because cass is useless or she adds nothing to the team.

i usually run this for items
http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Cassiopeia/?items=70,5,109,84&level=18

sometimes sorc boots instead.

Early game i can harrass better than most champions. This morning until level 6 i was out harrassing GP and kassadin on a 2v1 lane really easily while getting firstblood too.

Once you get to level 6 and get rylais you have 1 single target slow. 1 small aoe slow, 1 massive aoe slow and 1 aoe stun/slow.

Damage wise if you hit a target with all 4 skills which is quite easy to do as you stun then pummel with the rest.
Ult - 550.9
noxious blast - 1084.05
Miasma - 205.46
twin fang - 338.33
Total - 2178.74

So thats pure damage. Obviously MR and Arm take into account, but they do for most champions abilities. This also doesnt take into account that they will sit in Miasma for a short time. That 3 of those abilities are likely to have hit more than 1 enemy and that 2 of the skills are VERY short cooldown so can be done atleast twice in a combo.

She can also slaughter any waves of minions with her aoe slow before they get anywhere near the tower so can defend easily with minimal help. So why is she hated and people say she adds nothing to the team?


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RoflTroll

Senior Member

02-08-2011

...Noxious's AP ratio is for the full duration, not per second.

Miasma IS per second, though.

As for why she's hated:
1. Her damage is nothing spectacular, Anivia can burst for more without having to stick around.
2. Her E's effective cooldown is around 1s due to flight time and server response, even with poisoned target, so her actual damage output is worse than theorized (even in best case scenario)
3. She's VERY squishy, the 'auto-attack' with E doesn't worth the trade off with having to get near someone. Most champs will just stun and kill you. And if you don't go in to use E, your damage isn't that great.
4. Her ultimate is very buggy. I've had Sion chasing me, I cast ult, he stuns me before he's stunned, then since his stun last longer, he recovers first and kill me.
5. There's always someone doing better job than her. The 'AP-based auto-attacker' idea is nice in theory, but falls short in practice.


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Shiromatsu

Member

02-08-2011

I've seen her in game a few times and she just seems very weak after early game. Too squishy to get all her damage out and too weak if she builds survivability. Early game though she is great she can harass like no tomorrow, I have laned with a Cass as my partner only once but it let me farm all the last hits with barely any harass simply because she harasses better.


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Asylumseeker

Senior Member

02-08-2011

Quote:
RoflTroll:
...Noxious's AP ratio is for the full duration, not per second.

Miasma IS per second, though.

As for why she's hated:
1. Her damage is nothing spectacular, Anivia can burst for more without having to stick around.
2. Her E's effective cooldown is around 1s due to flight time and server response, even with poisoned target, so her actual damage output is worse than theorized (even in best case scenario)
3. She's VERY squishy, the 'auto-attack' with E doesn't worth the trade off with having to get near someone. Most champs will just stun and kill you. And if you don't go in to use E, your damage isn't that great.
4. Her ultimate is very buggy. I've had Sion chasing me, I cast ult, he stuns me before he's stunned, then since his stun last longer, he recovers first and kill me.
5. There's always someone doing better job than her. The 'AP-based auto-attacker' idea is nice in theory, but falls short in practice.


Okay, didnt read noxious properly but yeh your right on that one.
1. Anivia can burst more i agree, but she can burst more than most characters. Cass isnt a burst character really. More an AP version of a DPS character which she does very well.
2. 1 second cooldown yes but in battle you can basically faceroll over QWE and they just keep spamming into it.
3. Yes she is, but with rylais you have a bit more health and most characters struggle to get close enough in team fights (Bar ones like yi and olaf using ult or kassadin)
4. Can be buggy. I find probably 1 in 10 tries it bugs out. Usually when someone is using a certain ability at the time you fire it. Most of the time it works well though. For instance enemy team tried to initiate by taking me down first. I ulted 2 of them and my team wiped them out before they came back.
5. Yes some can slow better or stun better or better aoe but she has all of them combined so more a jack of all trades.


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Gunflame

Senior Member

02-08-2011

Why do they hate Cassio?
- She is a DOT champion... not many people like those
- She is very very very hard to use. People don't know how to use her.
- She her burst is not fire and forget. For example mal can setup her ultimate do his thing and run away. Swain throws all his **** and stays there doing nothing with AoE ulti. Cassio requires constant actions and if you mess up you get cut short of damage.
- I think she is pretty fun.. just hard to use


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Asylumseeker

Senior Member

02-08-2011

I guess malz had a bit of the same problem with people not liking him due to DOT, but obviously not as much as cass.
Honestly i dont see her much in games because i am the cass on my team and well dont see them often in enemy teams. I personally think i know how to use her quite well. Still getting used to bits and pieces but her q is very much like karths and her W very similar to morgs pool in how to aim them.
Completely agree. You have to keep pushing buttons to keep the damage going unlike most. However i find using smart cast you literally just chase them and get your fingers moving over QWE constantly. Not difficult at all and for that, just the aiming, but with rylais aiming is quite easy once you get the first hit.

As for fun. I think she really is awesome with great CC and the ability to defend a turret easily, keep them pinned to theirs, zoning your enemy early game, keeping enemies permanently slowed and cutting off escape routes.

Some of my recent games with her.
3/4/6 in 26 minutes
7/7/20 in 50 minutes with a 7/19/10 shaco that had 6 pairs of zerker greaves..
6/7/15 in 45 mins
6/4/10 in 36 mins

Obviously ive had some bad games too, but i have won more with her than lost. The ones i have lost have been bad teams. For instance a team that decided they all wanted to be melee apart from me. They got wiped out quickly by the ranged players.


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Deinbeck

Senior Member

02-08-2011

I dunno why people never play her. I just got her recently, and she's beastly. She is sort of like a caster dps, but trickier to use than an auto-attack champ. What I like about her is her damage is consistently good throughout any given game, and if she gets fed she becomes an absolute killing machine. Her Q is fairly spammable, has a long range, and an animation that goes unnoticed in team fights. You can sit back, spam it, and do some serious damage without getting too much attention.

I played her mid against a few ranged dps in non-ranked games, and she ate them all. If you want a laugh in a non-ranked game, play mid as Cass, chip away at whatever ranged dps the other team sticks there, and starve them out at their tower. Once you get your ult, over-commit yourself a few times to take some dmg, then over commit yourself into tower range and run out (obviously). If they're dumb (and most non-ranked game mids are...), they'll charge after you. Quickly ult in their face, Q, E, lawl. I swear this worked! Ranked is a different story, as it's much harder to land Q on someone that has enough sense to move around constantly.


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Sky Avenger

Senior Member

02-08-2011

I use her with my karma friend, im 10 in 10 so far, even if dont always got positive scores i dont feel im useless, i really feel i do make somewhat a difference


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Artemis66X

Junior Member

02-08-2011

get kassadin

nuke/silence every 5 secs (for 2.5) [.7AP ratio], AOE nuke/slow[.8AP ratio]every 3 secs if ppl are casting around you or every 6 when you have to charge it yourself, 15% reduced damage taken from spells?

oh yeah, and a flash every 3 secs that makes you uncatchable/unescapable even if you (for some reason) don't have them slowed.


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Wolvenborn

Member

02-08-2011

Quote:
Asylumseeker:
Had a few people tell me i have to change character because cass is useless or she adds nothing to the team.

i usually run this for items
http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Cassiopeia/?items=70,5,109,84&level=18

sometimes sorc boots instead.

Early game i can harrass better than most champions. This morning until level 6 i was out harrassing GP and kassadin on a 2v1 lane really easily while getting firstblood too.

Once you get to level 6 and get rylais you have 1 single target slow. 1 small aoe slow, 1 massive aoe slow and 1 aoe stun/slow.

Damage wise if you hit a target with all 4 skills which is quite easy to do as you stun then pummel with the rest.
Ult - 550.9
noxious blast - 1084.05
Miasma - 205.46
twin fang - 338.33
Total - 2178.74

So thats pure damage. Obviously MR and Arm take into account, but they do for most champions abilities. This also doesnt take into account that they will sit in Miasma for a short time. That 3 of those abilities are likely to have hit more than 1 enemy and that 2 of the skills are VERY short cooldown so can be done atleast twice in a combo.

She can also slaughter any waves of minions with her aoe slow before they get anywhere near the tower so can defend easily with minimal help. So why is she hated and people say she adds nothing to the team?


Pretty much what others said. I enjoy playing Cass. She is one of the more dominant early game laners if played properly. Her problem lies with the fact that a lot of her abiliites require her to be in closer quarters (her ult, and her twin fang). She has got to be the most squishy champ in the game. Especially as the game gets longer. Her twin fang can do some nice dps, but since you have to cast each time, and click on your target, it significantly reduces it's effectiveness. Hoenstly, if they gave her ult a much larger AOE cone, it would boost her effectiveness.


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