AP Corki: The Misunderstood Yordle

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Ember Blades

Junior Member

06-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by keftes View Post
elaborate

P.S lvl17 with 55 wins? If you're not a smurf your opinion means nothing
I agree with you. A level 7 guy preaching?

Sometimes, guys like this just can't help but troll. Also, even if he is a smurf, it doesn't always usually that the main is a pro account.


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h3w0

Senior Member

07-10-2010

The change to rocket accumulation in the last patch really helps this build. If I had some IP for everytime I've revived with teleport up and no rockets to jump into a fight with...


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EvilVegan

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Senior Member

09-29-2010

In reference to Haunting Guise, I read somewhere if you had lower AP ratios then Magic Pen items work better than pure AP. (or was that Mpen runes are better than AP runes...)

So (this is theorycraft, and I bow to your superior experience) just to put this out here, stacking magic pen:

Catalyst -> BV
Boot -> Sorc (20 pen)
Rylai's (80 AP)
Haunting Guise (20 pen)
Abyssal Sceptre (70 AP, -20 MR)
Voidstaff (70 AP, +40% pen)

If I understand the order of operations on Magic Pen and other things, and using the 15% mastery, and 10 MPen from runes , this should roughly reduce everyone who doesn't stack MR to at least 0 and in some cases even negatives (harder to get negative MR than armor unfortunately). To counter people will likely get banshee's veil and mercury treads. And I've seen tanks with 300 MR before. You penetrate 70 [(10 +20 +20) *(1.4)] of that, then reduce 20 of it, and ignore another 15% of it (stupid order of operation). So a 300 MR tank would be at roughly 178 (300-70,-20,then X .85). which works out to about about 64% magic damage reduction...

Your AP is sitting around 250 (with runes) and you ignore 90 then reduce a further 15%. Anyone with less than 70 MR you're doing bonus damage to up to +25% at -20 MR.

And if you're pwning face it is very likely that someone will get Banshee's veil and Mercury treads, so you're looking at 112 MR for most people. With this build that is 18.7 MR after your items.

q: Phosphorous bomb: 405 base damage = 506 damage to anyone with 70 MR or less. 341 damage to Merc Tread/BV. 145 to megatank 300 MR.
r: Rockets: 350 = 437.5 damage to
o anyone with 70 MR or less. 294 to MT/BV. 125 damage to megatank.

===========
Catalyst -> BV
Boot -> Sorc (20 pen)
Rylai's (80 AP)
Mejai's Soul Stealer (20 AP, +8 per stack up to +160)
Abyssal Sceptre (70 AP, -20 MR)
Zhonya's (120 AP, +25%)

If you get mostly AP items, your base AP can get to 500 or higher. Your core build has 30 MPen (Sorc Shoes and Runes) and 20 MR reduction (AbyScept). The base 30 is reduced to -20, the merctread/banshee's veil crowd is at 52.7, the megatank 300 MR is down to 212.

q: Phosphorous Bomb: 662.5 damage to anyone with 30 MR, 530 damage to 50 MR (base damage), 347 damage to MT/BV, 169.6 to megatank with 300 MR.
r: Rocket: 531.25 damage to anyone with 30 MR. 425 damage to 50 MR
(base damage), 278 damage to MT/BV, and 136 to megatank.

Assuming max stacks and actually finishing Zhonya's (why is the game still going?) you're in the 700 AP range:

q: Phosphorous Bomb: 787.5 without extra MR. 630 to anyone with 50 MR. 412 to MT/BV. 201 to megatank.
r: Rocket: 606.25 without extra MR. 485
to anyone with 50 MR. 317 to anyone with MT/BV. 155 to megatank.

So, assuming my math is correct and my understanding of how magic pen is correct (both really shaky assumptions) it doesn't look like there's really a huge difference between AP and magic pen as far as Corki is concerned.

Trying to kill a noob with 2000 HP and 30 MR:
q: 3.9 Max MPen, 3.01 High AP, 2.5 Max AP Phosphorous bombs to kill
r: 4.6 Max MPen, 3.8 High AP, 3.3 Max AP Rockets to kill

Trying to kill a MT/BV whatever with 2500 HP and 112 MR.
q: 7.3 max MPen, 7.2 high AP, 6.1 Max AP Phosphorous bombs to kill
r: 8.5 max MPen, 9.0 high AP, 7.9 Max AP Rockets to kill

Trying to kill a pure tank with 4000 HP and 300 MR.
q: 27.6 max MPen, 23.6 high AP, or 19.9 max AP phosphorous bombs to kill.
r: 32 max MPen, 29.4 high AP, or 25.8 max AP rockets to kill.

I will say this AP items tend to be more expensive and/or require buildup (Mejai's requires kills, RoA requires time, Archangel requires Mana/time); so depending on the matchup (tank heavy teams or squish heavy) and what the other team is going, heavy MPen can be beneficial.

At the very least I tend to get Haunting Guise if I don't think the game is going to last long enough to get to Zhonya's.

((EDIT: MATHFIXED))


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Saloman

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Member

10-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bombardier View Post
Corki's abilities do an amazing amount of damage without scaling them with AP and as most top tier corki players know they are a compliment to his physical dps not the other way around. Notice that his passive is 100% based on physical dps. Don't be mislead by the fact that all but 1 of his abilities are AP. If you go for a purely AP build you are basically worthless once oom which is quite easy to do as any frequent corki player knows. Once again physical carries are just flat out better than AP carries in this game. You may see an AP hero do well in middle from levels 1-6 but after that most physical carries will start shutting middle lane down vs an AP hero. Any time a game gets past the lvl 14-15 mark the viability of an AP corki drops significantly, and I will admit before this point an AP corki is a viable trade off to a physical corki.

The main problem lies in the late game with an AP corki. The main reason is that most heros have the HP to soak up a phos and a few missles. We all know that most team fights are decided within 10 seconds of starting. So in any given late game team fight phos can be used once. Valk will not be used offensively unless the fight is a pushover at which point it wouldnt matter what build you are because you alone do not make any fight a pushover no matter what hero you are with a few situational exceptions. After you drop your phos you have only 2 other abilities. As an AP corki you would be relying on your missles at this point, you may have gatling running but without any physical items, as the OP stated, it is basically a minimal amount of damage and a armor reduction which you can not capitalize on since you dont do heavy physical dps. Also note that most team fights consist of the carry standing behind a tanking class. Auto attacks can pass these tanks where as a missle can not without putting yourself behind their tank/initiator and as corki you are always a top concern of the other team and going this deep without a 150% certainty of success is suicide.

A few points to add.

An AP corki can not kill a decently geared/speced tank. 7 missles + 4 phosph + a few ticks of valk and the weak physical dps without physical items will never be enough to take down a tank. On the other hand a corki with gatling running and a black cleaver against a tank heavy team will do significant damage. Yes you dont want to focus a tank before the others, but if a tank over extends himself a physical corki can capitalize where as an ap corki can not.

While auto attack on corki does not have the range of the missle, which as OP and I agree is the bread and butter of an AP corki, the auto attack never misses (almost never, dodge..) and attacks just as fast as a missle spam would. The auto attack can reach levels of 1000 crits on a decked out corki. I have never run an AP corki to the extreme but i highly doubt anyone has ever nailed a 1000 dmg big-one missle.

A physical corki can melt someone with auto attack/gatling withing 3-4 seconds even with 2500+ hp if they do not disable corki, kill corki, or escape the range of corki. 3-4 seconds only allows 1 phosph, and 3 missles at absolute best if you dont miss. That is not going to kill anyone in 3-4 seconds with over 2000 hp.

A physical corki can take down neutral buffs and the dragon much faster than an AP corki and it can be done without wasting as many missles/mana. Farming the red buff every time its up is almost as effective as having a rylais on corki and still allows you to provide a snare even when oom.

The list goes on and once again let me remind you that it is well known and apparent in the meta game that physical damage > magic damage after the early to mid game stages.
AP Corki cannot really be compared to AD because they fill different roles completely. AD Corki can be a carry, while AP Corki provides a supportive role through clutch Rylai Slows and Miss chance. Its like comparing apples to oranges bro.


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xploit

Recruiter

10-25-2010

I have never seen a corki since mf came out. Theres just so much better options for range dps than corki its just a shame :S. good guide tho keep it updated


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Natar

Senior Member

04-07-2011

I'm not saying I favor AP corki or AD corki, but the explanation you give your decision is contradicted in the next sentance...

"1 atk ability and 1 atk passive vs 3 spammable ap spells seems like an obvious choice to me.
I don't max valk till last. It can be nice to max earlier for its damage, but most of the time it will be used for escaping"

so since valk is really just use for escaping (or closing distance) and not for actually doing damage, isn't it 1 atk ability and 1 atk passive vs 2 ap abilities ???


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grayrest

Senior Member

04-07-2011

Guide is from Jan 2010, which is before they added the AD scaling to his missiles. Please check dates before you necro.


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Warrrax

Senior Member

04-08-2011

Natar you suck dude. Worthless **** necro.


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Natar

Senior Member

04-14-2011

hmmm, didn't realize I was committing an offense & I certainly didn't know about any corki changes. sorry

and I'm only looking at his own words, as if they stand (regardless of any changes). its an apparent self-contradiction...

if we are concerned about "necro" or whatever... maybe we should go through the guides & have the thread owner for the "complete list of guides" update his lists to show "outdated" appropriately...