Fiddlesticks - MPEN vs AP

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Natar

Senior Member

04-01-2011

So to sum it up. Fiddlesticks is the perfect hero to get as much MPEN on as possible, and worry about stacking AP last. He has below average AP ratios. He has high base damage on his spells. And his DOT spells (drain and crowstorm) perform half damage at half second ticks and MR is applied each tick.

The problem is, there are not many MPEN items. Recommended:
Sorcerer's Shoes
Haunting Guise
*maybe Abyssal Scepter

For more info:

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...=2#post7417645

questions?


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AntiTcb

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Senior Member

04-01-2011

Just one question.

Is it really necessary to treat AP like an orphaned child because of slightly below average ratios?


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Hoywolf

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Senior Member

04-01-2011

he isnt too OP, with the tanky-dps meta he just can ult in and sweep the enemy team without probably dying himself.

i would say MRpen is good, but i think getting some AP is good after all you have boots and your passive to strip almost all MR from a carry.


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jmsplat

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Recruiter

04-01-2011

ya hes op


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Suuperdad

Senior Member

04-01-2011

Every single champion that uses AP does better with MPen than AP. That being said, MPen isn't on many items, so your choice isn't really between AP and MPen. Your choice is actually between the MPen item and other options for that slot. Not clear on the distinction? Let me clarify with three examples...

1) Sorc Shoes vs Merc Treads. This iss not an AP versus MPen question, it's a question on if you need the reduction in CC or not.

2) Haunting Guise vs something else... this is more of a question of if you want midgame power or lategame power. Haunting guise is unbelievably strong (simply because it has MPen), but it doesn't build into anything. If you get a haunting guise you are going for power-now versus power in your final build. If Haunting guise had an upgrade that simply gave it more of what it already has, it would be a complete staple in every single AP build - again, simply because of the MPen.

3) Abyssal Scepter - this is more of a question of if you could use the MR or not, as well as if it's better getting void staff or this. Ask yourself: Am I going glass cannon against MR stackers? go Void staff. Do they have at least 2 AP nukers and aren't heavily stacking MR? Get Abyssal Scepter. You almost always want one or the other, and the only reason you don't want both is because one is % MPen and one is flat MPen, and the way that they interact (flat MPen happens first, then % Mpen doesn't take away as much, therefore % Mpen is worth less the more flat MPen you have). Stacking both generally is overkill and you get more mileage out of other things. However, if both offered flat MPen you'd likely see both in every AP build.

In summary, posts like this aren't relevant, simply because of the options of MPen as they currently exist in the game. This post would only be relevant if Riot introduced a new item called "Magic Penetration Deathcap", 50 magic pen, increases your total flat magic penetration by 30%, or "Needlessly Large MPen Stick", 1600g, 40 Magic Pen, and have that build into lategame stuff.... i.e. core Mpen items that build into later items. Those items don't exist however, so you never choose between AP and Mpen, but rather between what type of Mpen you want, and when you want to be more powerful, midgame or lategame.


Right now, it's not even a question of AP vs MPen.


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malphismia

Senior Member

04-01-2011

Why do people always say MPen vs. AP. Why can't you get both.
Abyssal Sceptre is great on him, works perfect with his passive. Provides BOTH Mpen and AP.

@Suuperdad, most of your points are correct. But not all champions that use AP always use MPen. Look at Soraka. Look at Taric. Healers don't need MPen. Obviously some champions are better off with stacking AP.


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ZXPrototype

Senior Member

04-01-2011

Runes masteries boots passive

I run mpen marks, mpen quints (even in jungle, could switch to MS though), 9 down offense.
14 flat 15% base.
Add on passive, never remember what it is
Sorc boots-

The standard squishy with merc treads and no mr glyphs will have 0 MR vs fiddle.

Void/ abysall ok if they pick up BV's.


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ComradeHX

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Senior Member

04-01-2011

All you need is Offensive 9 and Void staff; then you can stack AP and some defenses.

Reason: most of the time when you start pwning with your ulti, they will get MR over 100...in which case Void staff will be better than getting a bunch of other items and you can even replace the sorc boot with something to improve other areas.

Obviously Magic penetration is important. AP-only is only going to work well for healers or anyone against crappy opponents who are getting pwned and still refuse to get even one MR item.


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xIScavengerIx

Junior Member

04-09-2011

The thing is, if you go MPEN runes then you can forego the items. Most characters don't buy Mresist stuff until mid-late game and you can't go below 0 for Mpen, it's a waste to go MPEN first. Just my two cents.


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jamned

Member

04-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by xIScavengerIx View Post
The thing is, if you go MPEN runes then you can forego the items. Most characters don't buy Mresist stuff until mid-late game and you can't go below 0 for Mpen, it's a waste to go MPEN first. Just my two cents.
Magic penetration can take an enemy's MR below 0 according to the LoL Wiki. I also want to point out an oversight in previous posts.

There's magic penetration (void staff) and magic resist reduction (abyssal scepter). The two may seem to perform similarly, but one is just for you and the other is for your entire team.

The void staff's 40% mpen is great, but if your entire team happens to be all AP (lets not ask why that happened), you have to consider how much additional damage can be done if your enemy has 20 less MR (when you're present) versus you penetrating 40% of their Magic Resist (but your team facing the extra MR, still). This is further complicated by your team's play style. If you're not all facing the enemy together at the same time (it happens), then the abyssal scepter loses some of its effectiveness. Oh yeah, and if your team is building some magic damage items, like...say Madred's bloodrazor, now you have to factor in how much HP the enemy champs have. Then you can take 3% of each of those and figure out how much the extra damage would be done if you're present and have an abyssal scepter to support your teammate.

Honestly, I just don't want to do all that math though.


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