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Yep, you guessed it: Master Yi.

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XIXInvictusXCI

Junior Member

10-05-2014

Hi there, to anyone taking the time to read this, I appreciate your time and your feedback, should you leave any.
Alright, down to business: Master Yi. I have struggled with this particular champion the most since I started playing League, which isn't even at a full year yet. I've had fun times playing as him, but I've had far more times of stress and anguish having him played against me. I know you've heard this argument a thousand times, but I will just have to be the 1,001st: Master Yi needs a change.

Please note, the word I used was not nerf, but CHANGE.

I understand what Yi was meant to be: An easy to use champ to help break people into the game. Someone with plenty of straightforward power and skills to get the juices going. I get it. I even agree with it. However, Yi isn't just played by new players. He's played a moderate amount of times in draft, blind, team builder, and he's terribly unbalanced. He takes absolutely no skill to use, yet he can snowball heavier than most champs in the whole game, quickly becoming a terror all over the map.
The focus points of my argument are thus:
His Q has too much range, too little of a CD, and hits too many times. What's more, the already small CD is further reduced by his AA, which allows for access to his favorite Penta tool.
If he were to hit fewer targets, have a longer CD, or reduce his damage (100% AD is a bit much?), I feel it would help bring it down for balancing purposes. It is one of the most powerful jungle clearing abilities out there in addition to it making him get kills with too much ease.

His W has a bit much to it as well. The rate he heals, even with only 1 point in it, is too much. It gives him a level of sustain that drastically brings down champs' abilities to kill him. I've seen this too many times for it to not be a viable argument. If his heal rate were to be reduced, or if it were able to be interrupted by champion abilities, this would help balance this ability.

His E might just be his biggest imbalance. I'll make thuis one short and simply by saying that a champion like Yi should never ever have true damage applied to anything he does. I don't really care what it is replaced with, just please remove the true damage from his E.

Finally, his R. This is the only ability of his that I agree with, as far as power and functionality. It's his play making ability, but that's what ultimates are supposed to be, but combine this with everything else he has, Yi kills too easy and gets away too easy.

If he's not sneaking around slaying people, he's keeping up with everyone by clearing jungle too fast, or he's destroying turrets before anyone can do anything about it, since he can just fly away with his R or just kill anyone coming to stop him. But the situation where he's scariest? Backdooring for a win. He can backdoor like no other champion and get away with it. He practically doesn't need his fellow team mates; he becomes a one man team of his own! And the thing that I find the most unfair is, I know I've been destroyed by people who are relatively new to this game who played Yi, while I've put in enough time and money to this game to consider myself an experienced player. Now, how fair is it that someone who, overall, is nowhere near my level of experience can just steamroll me with a champ like Yi?

If he is supposed to assassinate so well, let him be easier to kill. Take away from his sustain or escape abilities so there is an inherent danger in jumping in fights, or split-pushing lanes, or attempting to bull through base turrets and inhibs for a victory. If he's meant to run like the friggin' wind, reduce his damage, keep him needing to fight longer for those kills, needing to stay longer to kill turrets, etc.

I've heard and read from many people frustrated exclamations that Yi isn't hard to kill, Yi isn't overpowered, ban him, use him, etc. I know there are ways to beat him. Certain champs shut him down, thornmail, hard CC, I've heard it all. However, I have still witnessed too many times where those methods were still not enough. What ends up happening is the whole team needs to either completely focus Yi to kill him, thereby being slaughtered by his 4 other teammates, or focusing on the team and getting slaughtered by Yi.
In conclusion, the ultimate point behind this novel is, the imbalances of this particular champion take away the fun of the game. For me, having fun is the ultimate goal of playing any game, even competitively. Winning comes second. Everyone likes to win, but if players are not having fun, how long before they decide this game isn't worth it? I've been there myself, to be honest. Between trolls, negative behavior, bullying, harassment, server problems and champ imbalances, I've given serious thought to leaving this sometimes too stressful game behind and moving on to other things. I'd rather not get to that point, especially considering the amount of money I've put into my account, but everyone has their limits. For myself and plenty of people to make it a legitimate concern, Master Yi is one of those limits. I don't really care how he is changed, just as long as someone rebalances him in a fair way for everyone. Until this happens, I will be banning Yi in all of my draft games that I have the lead on, and I will not play as him in any game modes where I have control over who I play as. I should not have to, but I feel I have no choice.

Apologies for the length of this post. As I said, anyone who took the time to read this, I appreciate that time taken, as well as any insight or comments you wish to leave. Riot, I implore you to read this and consider what I've said here. I'd hate to see you keep losing potential customers over this issue, and I'd be even more disappointed if I were to become one of them.

Kindest personal regards,

XIXInvictusXCI


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JustMyBassCannon

Recruiter

10-05-2014

The overall argument you make in every single one of your points is "Yi has too much"

My immediate response is "Compared to what?"

"His Q has too much range, its CD is too short, it hits too many targets, it scales too much on AD..." Compared to what?

"His W heals too much" Compared to what?

"His E shouldn't do true damage" Because...why? Is true damage "too much" as well? True Damage is just damage that's not affected by your Resistance stats (and, conversely, by Yi's damage increase modifiers). Why is this something so taboo for Yi?


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XIXInvictusXCI

Junior Member

10-05-2014

Hi! Thanks for the reply!

I knew I didn't make enough examples in my post when I went back to read it; I shall try to remedy that now.
So, the points I made about his Q were meant to be seen as "All together, it's too much power". If they took one of those and reduced it, it would make him more balanced. Reduce his damage, but let him keep his CD and number of strikes. Reduce the strikes, keep the CD and damage, etc. I can't make an accurate comparison to Yi against other champs, I can only go off what I see, and that is his Q gets him kills that should take more effort. It's point and click, kill, next! No skill. Any champ should have a skill requirement on equal par with killing potential.
As I stated towards the end, I don't care whether his power is reduced or his difficulty is increased. That's completely up to Riot to figure that out. All I know is whenever Yi is used, whether on my side or against, the game becomes unfair and loses that fun element. Heck, I had a Yi carry on one of my qualifying games to get into my rank, and we won because of him, but I have never considered it a legit win, because of the imbalance.
With his W, I literally watch Yi enter his healing state while I'm attacking him, only to have none of my damage go through, between the damage reduction and heal, and once his heal is done, his Q is recharged and he fires that off to finish me in a fight where I should have been able to kill him. He's done so to turrets as well, even though he gets less reduced damage from them. The amount of healing, the 4 seconds worth of healing, and the damage reduction make him more tanky than he should be with the damage output he has. Again, reduce one of those aspects, give others as much of a chance to kill him as he has to kill them, and he will be more balanced.
The true damage ignores armor, which is one of a FEW solutions to deal with his crazy high AD and crit chances. Once again, it becomes a trifecta of imbalance; I believe true damage on such a high AD and crit chance champ is simply unfair.


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JustMyBassCannon

Recruiter

10-05-2014

Quote:
XIXInvictusXCI:
Hi! Thanks for the reply!

I knew I didn't make enough examples in my post when I went back to read it; I shall try to remedy that now.
So, the points I made about his Q were meant to be seen as "All together, it's too much power". If they took one of those and reduced it, it would make him more balanced. Reduce his damage, but let him keep his CD and number of strikes. Reduce the strikes, keep the CD and damage, etc. I can't make an accurate comparison to Yi against other champs, I can only go off what I see, and that is his Q gets him kills that should take more effort. It's point and click, kill, next! No skill. Any champ should have a skill requirement on equal par with killing potential.

Does Talon pressing all four buttons at the same time take more effort?

Does Leblanc tossing Q-R take more effort?

Does it take more effort to press R on Karthus?

Before you try; no, it does not. None of those take more effort or decision-making than Yi's Alpha Strike. I could go through the entire list of 121 champions, naming every example of easy kill spells, both basic and ultimate, but I'd rather not start harassing you for not knowing that this is not unique to Master Yi.
Quote:
XIXInvictusXCI:
As I stated towards the end, I don't care whether his power is reduced or his difficulty is increased. That's completely up to Riot to figure that out.

Riot already has figured out where they want his power level and difficulty. Right where it is currently, because it's not breaking anything balance-wise.
Quote:
XIXInvictusXCI:
All I know is whenever Yi is used, whether on my side or against, the game becomes unfair and loses that fun element. Heck, I had a Yi carry on one of my qualifying games to get into my rank, and we won because of him, but I have never considered it a legit win, because of the imbalance.

The only reason ever to not consider it a legitimate win is if the enemy team is actively trolling their own teammates.

Looking at that particular game, Yi basically just went around, ganking everyone on the enemy team because they were all squishy and uncoordinated. Lee Sin got a lead early on, but they didn't counter-jungle Yi so he was left to farm freely. No one on that team had good Armor early, and I'm willing to bet that they didn't coordinate using CC on Yi. None of them had Exhaust, none of them had good burst damage...I can see how Yi could roll over them pretty easily with that comeback lead early on.

It's a combination of poor team composition and lack of coordination on their part; still a legitimate win.
Quote:
XIXInvictusXCI:
With his W, I literally watch Yi enter his healing state while I'm attacking him, only to have none of my damage go through, between the damage reduction and heal, and once his heal is done, his Q is recharged and he fires that off to finish me in a fight where I should have been able to kill him.

That was the design premise, yes. Have you tried disruption CC? All of that totally stops his channeling, which cancels his DR and healing.
Quote:
XIXInvictusXCI:
He's done so to turrets as well, even though he gets less reduced damage from them. The amount of healing, the 4 seconds worth of healing, and the damage reduction make him more tanky than he should be with the damage output he has.

When he's dealing damage, he's not tanky. When he's tanky, he's not dealing damage. In either case, he's extremely susceptible to stuns, snares, etc.
Quote:
XIXInvictusXCI:
Again, reduce one of those aspects, give others as much of a chance to kill him as he has to kill them, and he will be more balanced.

Instead of suggesting Riot do things to a champion, why don't you try them yourself?

The guy costs 450 IP, and if he really is so amazing, you ought to be Plat in a short amount of time. Don't try to spin this into a thing about personal honor, either. If anyone can do well with Yi, with all due respect, where's your Plat 1 badge?
Quote:
XIXInvictusXCI:
The true damage ignores armor, which is one of a FEW solutions to deal with his crazy high AD and crit chances. Once again, it becomes a trifecta of imbalance; I believe true damage on such a high AD and crit chance champ is simply unfair.

The true damage was given to him because he couldn't do anything to champions with high defense. Master Yi is one of the few champions Riot designed to be a melee carry; carries are supposed to be the champions that kill enemy champions and structures as quickly as possible. Yes, eventually, you can't build enough defense to survive Master Yi. But do you know how much time is between now and eventually?


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Sleeper Cell

Senior Member

10-05-2014

LOL I'm a terrible person. I didn't even read a single word past the title and instinctively hit no on the Yi nerf thread xD

Btw change to make weaker = nerf.


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JustMyBassCannon

Recruiter

10-05-2014

Quote:
Sleeper Cell:
Btw change to make weaker = nerf.

This.

If you do post in the future on the Boards, please, don't try to pretend you aren't asking for nerfs.


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LucasLocken

Member

10-06-2014

hey at least yi is squishy and can be cc'ed


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Lost R

Senior Member

10-06-2014

Quote:
LucasLocken:
hey at least yi is squishy and can be cc'ed


To elaborate on this, Yi has no answer for any crowd control that isn't a slow. I've outrun him ulting with much slower champions (Nami) and won duels against him with much weaker champions (Lulu) because of well-timed buffs and crowd control. His strength lies in the ability to catch weaker enemies off guard and nuke them to high hell before they can react, but if they can react or last through the damage, he has no answer for it. Yi has absolutely no crowd control and no escape plan outside of his ult, which he usually activated one or two seconds before going in, and will only run if the assault goes pear-shaped and he's able to, which means he wasn't vaporized with a nuke or nailed to the wall with a stun, which means the fight lasted long enough for him to reach that decision and react to it, which means he's dead.

Most Yis I've seen will build a Blade of the Ruined King, Feral Flare (if they're the jungler, which they usually are), Berserker's Greaves, Infinity Edge, Bloodthirster, Phantom Dancer and Youmuu's Ghostblade. Most players even under normal circumstances don't think to build a Mercurial Scimitar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLKhxjfG03A) even if it's in their best interest. This makes Yi a very front loaded assassin. Take that early burst away from him and he has no answer for it.


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Echo5kw

Senior Member

10-06-2014

if i get mid and i see a yi (or, anymore, a fizz) i'll snag malz. i main him anyway, but champs like fizz and yi that NEED to be held in place have a really hard time against malz (assuming ult up, no team, or whatever).

i've dueled yi and won as taric many times.

swain, fiora, jax, kennen, mf and vayne can all (in general) handle yi pretty well.

leona, naut, sej and yasuo can all neutralize his damage in teamfights (interrupting meditate/locking him down for their teams to kill him).

teamwork is op.


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Trace On

Senior Member

10-06-2014

Quote:
XIXInvictusXCI:
Hi there, to anyone taking the time to read this, I appreciate your time and your feedback, should you leave any.
Alright, down to business: Master Yi. I have struggled with this particular champion the most since I started playing League, which isn't even at a full year yet. I've had fun times playing as him, but I've had far more times of stress and anguish having him played against me. I know you've heard this argument a thousand times, but I will just have to be the 1,001st: Master Yi needs a change.

Please note, the word I used was not nerf, but CHANGE.

I understand what Yi was meant to be: An easy to use champ to help break people into the game. Someone with plenty of straightforward power and skills to get the juices going. I get it. I even agree with it. However, Yi isn't just played by new players. He's played a moderate amount of times in draft, blind, team builder, and he's terribly unbalanced. He takes absolutely no skill to use, yet he can snowball heavier than most champs in the whole game, quickly becoming a terror all over the map.
The focus points of my argument are thus:
His Q has too much range, too little of a CD, and hits too many times. What's more, the already small CD is further reduced by his AA, which allows for access to his favorite Penta tool.
If he were to hit fewer targets, have a longer CD, or reduce his damage (100% AD is a bit much?), I feel it would help bring it down for balancing purposes. It is one of the most powerful jungle clearing abilities out there in addition to it making him get kills with too much ease.

His W has a bit much to it as well. The rate he heals, even with only 1 point in it, is too much. It gives him a level of sustain that drastically brings down champs' abilities to kill him. I've seen this too many times for it to not be a viable argument. If his heal rate were to be reduced, or if it were able to be interrupted by champion abilities, this would help balance this ability.

His E might just be his biggest imbalance. I'll make thuis one short and simply by saying that a champion like Yi should never ever have true damage applied to anything he does. I don't really care what it is replaced with, just please remove the true damage from his E.

Finally, his R. This is the only ability of his that I agree with, as far as power and functionality. It's his play making ability, but that's what ultimates are supposed to be, but combine this with everything else he has, Yi kills too easy and gets away too easy.

If he's not sneaking around slaying people, he's keeping up with everyone by clearing jungle too fast, or he's destroying turrets before anyone can do anything about it, since he can just fly away with his R or just kill anyone coming to stop him. But the situation where he's scariest? Backdooring for a win. He can backdoor like no other champion and get away with it. He practically doesn't need his fellow team mates; he becomes a one man team of his own! And the thing that I find the most unfair is, I know I've been destroyed by people who are relatively new to this game who played Yi, while I've put in enough time and money to this game to consider myself an experienced player. Now, how fair is it that someone who, overall, is nowhere near my level of experience can just steamroll me with a champ like Yi?

If he is supposed to assassinate so well, let him be easier to kill. Take away from his sustain or escape abilities so there is an inherent danger in jumping in fights, or split-pushing lanes, or attempting to bull through base turrets and inhibs for a victory. If he's meant to run like the friggin' wind, reduce his damage, keep him needing to fight longer for those kills, needing to stay longer to kill turrets, etc.

I've heard and read from many people frustrated exclamations that Yi isn't hard to kill, Yi isn't overpowered, ban him, use him, etc. I know there are ways to beat him. Certain champs shut him down, thornmail, hard CC, I've heard it all. However, I have still witnessed too many times where those methods were still not enough. What ends up happening is the whole team needs to either completely focus Yi to kill him, thereby being slaughtered by his 4 other teammates, or focusing on the team and getting slaughtered by Yi.
In conclusion, the ultimate point behind this novel is, the imbalances of this particular champion take away the fun of the game. For me, having fun is the ultimate goal of playing any game, even competitively. Winning comes second. Everyone likes to win, but if players are not having fun, how long before they decide this game isn't worth it? I've been there myself, to be honest. Between trolls, negative behavior, bullying, harassment, server problems and champ imbalances, I've given serious thought to leaving this sometimes too stressful game behind and moving on to other things. I'd rather not get to that point, especially considering the amount of money I've put into my account, but everyone has their limits. For myself and plenty of people to make it a legitimate concern, Master Yi is one of those limits. I don't really care how he is changed, just as long as someone rebalances him in a fair way for everyone. Until this happens, I will be banning Yi in all of my draft games that I have the lead on, and I will not play as him in any game modes where I have control over who I play as. I should not have to, but I feel I have no choice.

Apologies for the length of this post. As I said, anyone who took the time to read this, I appreciate that time taken, as well as any insight or comments you wish to leave. Riot, I implore you to read this and consider what I've said here. I'd hate to see you keep losing potential customers over this issue, and I'd be even more disappointed if I were to become one of them.

Kindest personal regards,

XIXInvictusXCI


Yi is easy to learn but hard to master. In high elo you have to be really good at him to find success and he's very weak early game.


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