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Why the buffer-armor and regen-MR links?

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Garnasha

Junior Member

10-05-2014

A question which I don't really know how to pose to the search function:
Why, if you want resistances and sustain (HP and MP), can you only get buffer on armor items and regen on MR items? The only combination which doesn't obey that rule is HP-MR, which is available on Spectre's and family, and on Legion. But there's no item for MR+Mana (not since Banshee lost Mana, I think), no armor+Hp5, and no armor+Mp5.

The Hp5 case is actually wider: barring the support items (niche&unique), only Warmog's and Tiamat/Hydra offer Hp5 without MR. Toying around with builds, that got really obvious when I tried the scenario "what happens if I build Soraka full Hp5 for her W". Results: stratospheric MR, all other stats rubbish. That seemed really weird, since I can't see a clear mechanics line between MR and Hp5. Mpen only with AP, Ppen only with AD, LS and SV only with resp. AD and AP, sure. CDR mostly on tank or AP gear (exceptions: bruta, reaver, SotEL, Stinger, all rather niche), also obvious... But MR-Hp5, nope, can't see it.

So, could anyone explain to me, or point me to an explanation by Riot, why 1. Hp5 almost exclusively comes with MR attached and 2. Why Mana+MR nor Mp5+armor exists?


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The5lacker

Senior Member

10-05-2014

To answer your last question first, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO HAVE EVERY STAT COMBINATION IN THE GAME AVAILABLE. It's unnecessary and it'd make a giant pile of waste items that nobody would actually use except in abuse cases.

Additionally, if you're having mana problems and need armor, Iceborn Gauntlet, Frozen Heart. Your mana problems are solved and you're nigh-indestructible.

Health Regen is a sustain stat. Sustain us primarily effective at surviving poke. Mages primarily poke. Ergo anti-mage items tend to grant sustain. Armor protects against Fighters and Marksmen. Neither primarily poke and are primarily DPS. Flat Health and resistances are the best counters to DPS. Ergo, most Armor items also have a sizable chunk of Health.


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17inchcorkscrew

Senior Member

10-05-2014

What 5lacker said. Also, MR + Mana exists. Chalice.

Also also, the way to maximize the effectiveness of Soraka's heal is to build AP, not Hp5. Also also also, pretty much all Hp5 comes with Health, which is the worst tank stat for Soraka now.


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The5lacker

Senior Member

10-05-2014

Quote:
17inchcorkscrew:
What 5lacker said. Also, MR + Mana exists. Chalice.

Also also, the way to maximize the effectiveness of Soraka's heal is to build AP, not Hp5. Also also also, pretty much all Hp5 comes with Health, which is the worst tank stat for Soraka now.

Saying health is a bad tank stat on Soraka is like saying it's a bad tank stat on Aatrox or Zac. It still makes you tankier. There are still health items that are valuable (especially Spirit Visage.). It still lets you take more damage. It just doesn't let you cast more heals.


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17inchcorkscrew

Senior Member

10-05-2014

Quote:
The5lacker:
Saying health is a bad tank stat on Soraka is like saying it's a bad tank stat on Aatrox or Zac. It still makes you tankier. There are still health items that are valuable (especially Spirit Visage.). It still lets you take more damage. It just doesn't let you cast more heals.

It's not a bad tank stat, it's just the worst. She loses percent health already, and if you're playing tanky, she can often hit multiple enemies with her Q in teamfights. Obviously, it's not a good idea to avoid health, but Frozen Heart is much better than Warmog's.
Thank you for clarifying that, though.


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Garnasha

Junior Member

10-05-2014

Quote:
17inchcorkscrew:
Also, MR + Mana exists. Chalice.
That's MR+Mp5.

The "no reason to have every combination available" sounds fine, but there's multiple variations on the theme "MR+Hp5" (3 out of 7 Hp5 options not counting Doran's), which just looked odd compared to the zero variations on the theme "Armor+Hp5"

The "AP pokes, Hp5+MR is meant to counter that, AD doesn't poke so no Hp5 needed with armor" sounds good though. Some AD champions can poke, but it's rare and I don't think it's ever their primary activity. So yeah, that answers it, thanks.

That Soraka build just won't make it off the drawing board. Pity, but yeah, I'll just stick to the heavy AP builds for healing power.


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JustMyBassCannon

Recruiter

10-05-2014

Quote:
Garnasha:
That's MR+Mp5

Yes, and unless you are Ryze, Singed, Blitzcrank or Kassadin, you should really not give a damn about it being MP5 instead of MP. Over time or maximum, Mana is Mana.


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Garnasha

Junior Member

10-06-2014

Those 4 are actually the champions where I first noticed something weird was going on. Also, short term (1 fight), maxMP would be better for any champion able to dump their whole pool at once. But mainly, I meant to say "that's not a counterexample to MR being combined with Mp5 and Hp5 while armour gets combined with maxMP/maxHP". But my question's been answered, and I don't see this thread accomplishing anything else.

Lock please.


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