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I hate this community

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Hey Watch This

Recruiter

10-04-2014

Just played a game where I was constantly flamed and called bronze all cause of one bad play, I called them idiots, At the end of the game I skipped waiting for stats and didn't report anyone, But the 3 people in the party all reported me so I get punished, Really? That's brilliant


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meadow

Senior Member

10-05-2014

Certainly. Calling them 'idiots' is retaliating (which is adding fire to fire) so unfortunately that is not allowed and thus you were reported for something which you did do, and punished accordingly ofcourse.

Next time, just mute and report them and don't skip the stats screen.


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Hey Watch This

Recruiter

10-05-2014

They were unaware....


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Hey Watch This

Recruiter

10-05-2014

And if waiting for stats didnt take two minutes I wouldnt


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Prandine

Senior Member

10-05-2014

Quote:
Hey Watch This:
And if waiting for stats didnt take two minutes I wouldnt

Well waiting is better than not being able to report them at all I'd say.


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goodjobSport

Junior Member

10-05-2014

Quote:
Hey Watch This:
And if waiting for stats didnt take two minutes I wouldnt


two minutes? When you see "Skip waiting for stats" 10 seconds later you can report, never seen a 2 minute wait time.


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Landrein

Member

10-05-2014

problem is that there is no assurance that verbal harrassers will get banned. Even they will tell you they aren't scared of bans. The report feature is largely just used for harassment itself. So, your options often feel like you have to either let them harass you with impunity or get punished. Riot is trying to change that environment though, they are now outright banning the worse offenders. People haven't caught on to the change i think, but I expect the community to improve a little. What riot really needs to do, I think, i change the mechanics of the game in a way that your community reputation matters and people feel invested in the league they are assigned and how they are seen in that league. Then people will behave better.

(often people with high latency will have to wait for the after screen game to load.)


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Jubbinaut

Recruiter

10-05-2014

Quote:
Landrein:
problem is that there is no assurance that verbal harrassers will get banned.

I encourage you to look over the wall of threads in the TBI forums from players complaining about the bans they received for verbal harassment and general toxicity.

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Even they will tell you they aren't scared of bans.

This is usually said with the intent of convincing people not to report. After all, if they can convince you it won't do anything, you're far less likely to actually report them. And if people don't report them, there's a strong chance their account won't get flagged for a review.

In short: Report them anyway.

Quote:
The report feature is largely just used for harassment itself. So, your options often feel like you have to either let them harass you with impunity or get punished.

Calling for or threatening reports is indeed a form of bullying, and thus considered harassment. However, there's also no need to call for reports. The system that builds cases does so based on report density (reported games vs. total games played) rather than raw reports (total number of individual reports). This means that for the purposes of building a case, 1 report in a game carries the same weight as 9.

And unless you're flagrantly abusing the reporting system, you won't be punished for silently sending your own report.


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Landrein

Member

10-05-2014

Quote:
Quote:
I encourage you to look over the wall of threads in the TBI forums from players complaining about the bans they received for verbal harassment and general toxicity.


and yet, trolls will constantly brag to you about how riot will never ban them or about their 400 game chat restrictions. If trolls were consistently banned, you would not have trolls every game. or do you expect that there is simply an unlimited number of trolls? or maybe the trolls have taken the time to level an unlimited number of accounts? My argument wasn't that no one gets banned but that people are banned inconsistently.

Also, I think you missed it in your cursory scan for quotable points to fight about, but I support the recent attempts by riot to crack down on trolls. I think they are moving in the right direction even though i understand the frustration of people who run into them every game still. I think blaming the victim or anyone who has a problem with a current system that has so obviously proved itself ineffective while pretending that nothing is wrong with it is as problematic as your attempt to drag me into argument for the sake of argument.

Quote:

Calling for or threatening reports is indeed a form of bullying, and thus considered harassment. However, there's also no need to call for reports. The system that builds cases does so based on report density (reported games vs. total games played) rather than raw reports (total number of individual reports). This means that for the purposes of building a case, 1 report in a game carries the same weight as 9.


First of all, asking for the community to help enforce its standards isn't bullying anymore than asking for someone to be arrested for robbery is a form of bullying. Its the mark of a bully to insist that the person being bullied is himself a bully if he responds in anyway. Also, the abuse of the report function was, i thought obviously, people reporting others without reason to do so. I notice every game, the loosing side sends reports to everyone that didn't do well in their assessment regardless of their behavior.


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Jubbinaut

Recruiter

10-05-2014

Quote:
Landrein:
and yet, trolls will constantly brag to you about how riot will never ban them or about their 400 game chat restrictions. If trolls were consistently banned, you would not have trolls every game. or do you expect that there is simply an unlimited number of trolls? or maybe the trolls have taken the time to level an unlimited number of accounts? My argument wasn't that no one gets banned but that people are banned inconsistently.

You're right. It's inconsistent, because it requires a threshold of reported games along with the behavior. What happens often is that players just aren't trolling enough games to be reported enough to trigger cases. Which is why I encourage people to always report players who they feel are behaving an a way they find unacceptable.

Quote:
Also, I think you missed it in your cursory scan for quotable points to fight about, but I support the recent attempts by riot to crack down on trolls.

No. I didn't miss it. I just didn't address it. My post was not intended purely for you, but as a general source of information. Neither was I looking for anything to fight about. My intention was to indicate a general agreement with most of your post, and offer alternative views or information to the things I felt should be addressed.

Apparently, I didn't do a very good job of communicating that. My apologies.

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I think blaming the victim or anyone who has a problem with a current system that has so obviously proved itself ineffective while pretending that nothing is wrong with it is as problematic as your attempt to drag me into argument for the sake of argument.

I'm not attempting to argue with you in the first place. Nor do I believe that there's nothing wrong with the system. Its inherent reliance on player reports - while carrying benefits - is potentially problematic. The current lack of communication about the reasons behind bans is a particular concern to me, because I believe that reform is more effective when that information is given quickly.

But I don't know why you think I'm victim blaming.

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First of all, asking for the community to help enforce its standards isn't bullying anymore than asking for someone to be arrested for robbery is a form of bullying.

I... don't disagree with what you're saying here, but I don't think your analogy is really appropriate. I can think of two reasons to call for reports on a player:

A) Those reports in some way help (or are believed to help) ensure that player is brought to the system's attention more quickly. The system does not actually function that way, however, so this is not a useful or valid reason.
B) To call for peer pressure on the player being called out, with the intention of forcing him to follow the behavior pattern desired by the player calling him out. This is an effective definition of a type of bullying.

Since A is negated by the functions of the system, that leaves B. If you know of a viable alternative reason for doing so, I'd be glad to hear it. I've never thought of one myself.

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Its the mark of a bully to insist that the person being bullied is himself a bully if he responds in anyway.

I didn't say "in any way." I specifically said calling for reports. Responding by muting the offensive player is not bullying. Neither is responding by reporting him. Neither is responding by asking him to stop, or to focus on the game - so long as the statements to that effect are not themselves abusive.

There's a lot of valid ways to handle bullying in-game. Calling for reports isn't one of them.

Quote:
Also, the abuse of the report function was, i thought obviously, people reporting others without reason to do so.

That's pretty much it, yes. There's a subsystem designed to handle that problem (players who report cases that do not lead to punishments have the weight or value of their reports lowered until they eventually are ignored by the system or they begin issuing valid reports, which then increases the weight or value). Still, there's been at least one wave of bans issued to players who were the worst of the worst of report-abusers.

Quote:
I notice every game, the loosing side sends reports to everyone that didn't do well in their assessment regardless of their behavior.

*shrug* Honestly, I dunno. That's not been my experience, but that doesn't mean much.


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