Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Idea to Fix snowballing

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Meserion

Senior Member

10-03-2014

Snowballing is a big issue in Summoner's Rift, particularly when the snowballer happens to be a Marksman (ADC). I've introduced item to buff up supports, which was actually a really bad idea; an item that blocks the first two deaths, also a bad idea. My new idea is a eloquent solution that requires minimal changes to the game.

Essentially nerf the gold gained from kills; nerf 300 gold down to say 100 gold perhaps. We nerf the gold gain to prevent certain types champions from Snowballing super hard. This would not stop gold gains from farming and would emphasis the importance of farm vs. kills in a big way by broadening the gap of gold gain between the two. That is not to say it would make the game passive, far from it, the champion kill opens a window to exploit a weakness in enemy defenses to attack a tower or maybe get dragon or even baron. The only people who might go passive are the ones that depend on kills to get their gold to be effective rather then high CS.

Part of the reason I want snowballing to be addressed is the fact in some games, the outcome is decided literally in the first 5 minutes because one champion gets fed too much and becomes unstoppable. This is suppose to be a team game, why is one champion able to tip the balance in such a huge way? Ideally kills should be split evenly among the team to promote a team atmosphere. Instead we deal with a atmosphere saying: "my kill, My Kill, MY KILL!". If we wish to promote a team environment, snowballing has to be at least minimized if not eradicated completely.

What do you guys think?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LOL olaf SUCKS

Member

10-03-2014

I am by no means shooting down your idea but my personal opinion is that they have nerfed snowballing more than enough in my 3 years experience of playing this game. With stronger early towers, first blood less gold, experience curve (socialism experience). If it just became primarily about farming the champs with strong wave clear would just get even stronger. My opinion though.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Meserion

Senior Member

10-03-2014

As I like to say, "we'll cross that bridge when we get there". If wave clear champions pull ahead too far, it will be changed. At the moment we have a situation where the whole game is decided in less than a quarter of the average time per match. While this is not always the case, the rate is extremely high starting in bronze all the way to even gold ranking. The problem with balancing around the upper 10% of the player base, is that the other 90% are made to suffer and out of that 90% easily 1/2 of them become extremely toxic and alienate new and old players alike.

Lets be honest here, people hate to lose. In a game like LoL losing ends up being nothing and as a result people don't take losing well. Its for this reason that snowballing needs to be dealt with. If a game is a close match where both teams grapple in long epic battles, the losers are more likely to feel better about the match because they still feel they had a fighting chance, and weren't screwed over early on by a few small mistakes.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Meserion

Senior Member

10-03-2014

Just read board notice, I plan to remake this post on the new forums.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lyle Rachir

Member

10-03-2014

ok as olaf (who was god second season) said they have done a hundred nerfs if not more for snowballing.

2 a snowballed champion should just be focus champion. if someone is snowballed to hell. its because hes probably been fed kills like a fat kid on cake. and while its a team game. that doesnt mean a team shuold feed someone together. if someone is 3-0 within 5 minutes. there is barely even 50 cs out by that time. this is saying your are almost standing there letting them kill you. they couldnt be higher then level 3 maybe level 4. and should be strong the entire game because of the literally feeding.

3 farm champs would be too op. vayne, nasus, veigar, all those champions that just want to farm until late game would have so much more kill potential and the games would be drawn out a lot more as well.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Meserion

Senior Member

10-03-2014

I did the math Lyle, one kill without 1st blood is 300 gold, if each minion was a normal and one siege it would be 14 CS, with 1st blood, add 4 to that for 18 CS. waves have about 6 to 7 minions so that 2-3 minion waves from one kill. if you multiple it by 3 or 900 gold then 45 minions from 3 kills plus normal minions allow them to theoretically break 100 cs in a very short time.

That isn't the point, certain champions scale super hard with gold (mostly ADCs) and because they get so much gold they become unstoppable, thus snowball. nerfing the gold from kills would make a huge difference, particularly in bottom lane.

About the 3rd paragraph, you're suppose to farm to get gold normally, but because of the fact kills give so much gold, a lot of people ignore early farming and also run the risk (moreso than normal) of feeding by going for kills instead of farm. the "farm" champions would become a part of a new meta and Riot may nerf them, regardless it would be change that I feel the game needs to continue to grow.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lyle Rachir

Member

10-03-2014

what your wanting is to take out the reasons for early damage champions.

seriously this would completely negate any reason to play the early game champions. look at quinn yes an adc and imo the best early game one there is. she would have no chance against a vayne. after about 10 minutes worth of game time.

your also wanting to extend game times by about 12-15 minutes imo. (not going to break down the math im at work) which wouldnt help lol grow it would kill it. one of the biggest reason why lol is so popular is becuase it only usually lasts around 20 minutes. if you make it last longer. to where people have to start putting in more time. its only going to make things worse and worse for each lose. driving people to want to play strife or smite. or whatever else they can get there hands on.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Meserion

Senior Member

10-04-2014

by not making this change, the games ends up being decided in the 1st 5 - 10 minutes, and a team cannot surrender until 20 minutes unless you choose to leave the game early.

Quinn falls into the Marksman category, if you look up that role on the LoL wiki (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Marksman_champion), it says Marksmans are suppose to deal heavy damage LATE GAME; as such Quinn is an anomaly in that regard. Also because he does not have a assassin secondary role, hes not suppose to be powerful mid game, instead deal heavy damage over a period of time.

Summoner's Rift used to have matches the lasted about 40 minutes on average, right now they barely last 20 minutes because snowballing particularly in bottom lane is out of control. If you want to play a short match, go play ARAM or Dominion; those maps are designed to only last 20 minutes.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mich567

Senior Member

10-04-2014

Ooh, transgender Quinn!
This change would completely change the meta and our anuses are not prepared for that.
People snowball, and they did change it some time ago so that it's harder to snowball.
Matches do not "usually last 20 minutes", and "the games ends up being decided in the 1st 5-10 minutes" is an incredibly broad generalization.

Also, "game is gone, surrender" is an attitude that makes it easier to lose. Sure, it may save time for the next game, but there's also a lot of effects. When a team's ahead, they get cocky and make more mistakes. If you surrender, you'll be feeling down psychologically for the next game. If you come out of a good loss, you'll be better off. Or, I don't know, it's different for every person. But a lot of **** can happen, so at least try not surrendering once in a while.

There's too many factors to the game. You're assuming this would completely positively impact the game in one specific area, and ignoring everything else. Marksmen are not "always" going to ONLY deal damage late game. Games do not always last barely 20 minutes. Bottom lane is not always out of control. Games do not end up always being decided in the first 5-10 minutes and thinking so hurts you.

The entire game would have to be reworked if this change came about.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Meserion

Senior Member

10-04-2014

Change is not bad, its actually good, whether it alters the meta hardly matters; what is actually bad is stagnation because the game will become "samey" and people will get bored and leave. Would you mind specifying, in what way was snowballing made harder? I've looked and nothing was said about that anywhere on the forums, reddit, or the website, are you just parroting what other people said? On the third point:

Quote:
Mich567:

Matches do not "usually last 20 minutes", and "the games ends up being decided in the 1st 5-10 minutes" is an incredibly broad generalization.


You're taking those words out of context, the previous poster indicated he did not want the game to last 12-15 minutes longer; I responded by saying they barely last 20 minutes [referring to Summoner's Rift] when the matches where designed to last 40 minutes on average. I originally posted saying nearly all ranked matches from bronze to gold are indeed decided in the 1st 5-10 minutes because a marksman gets fed 3 kills and gets an early B.F. Sword, since their damage stacks in multiplicatively instead of additively (damage = 2x or more instead of +1) by way of critical strike chance they start doing crazy damage that allows them to push super hard and kill almost anyone.

The reason we would nerf gold gain from kills would be to slow down the snowball effect particularly for champions that stack damage multiplicatively.

On the note that you said I said marksman will ONLY deal damage late game, I said there suppose to according to the definition of a marksman, the only time that should change is if their secondary role counteracts the early game damage deficiency. Now will it it ALWAYS be like that? no, but unless Riot changes the formulas for roles, for now yes it will be like that.

As for your last statement, that is untrue. Unless Riot tries to preserve the current meta after this change was introduced, there would be very little re-coding, or redesigning required. If I'm wrong, tell me what they'll have to change and in what way will the components in question?


12