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Why people *****ing about Soraka's new kit are idiots.

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Arrion

Member

10-02-2014

Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
3: I never said supports aren't supposed to do damage, but Soraka isn't. It isn't a part of her identity. But now I guess we can have all identical poke or tank supports.


Dude it is totally part of her identity. Here's the lore to prove it. Also, I underlined, and made the important text bold in which proves my point.

She stepped into the mortal world for the first time, and soon found Warwick desperately fighting a group of men. She tried to heal him, but for every wound she closed, the men inflicted two more. Soraka realized that she would have to fight to save her friend. The stars screamed in her mind, telling her not to use her powers for harm. Ignoring their warning, she struck the attackers with a flash of brilliant light. Crying out in terror and shielding their eyes from her divine radiance, they fled. Soraka's celestial form faded and the stars fell silent - for her transgression, she became mortal. She still felt the power of the stars within her, but they no longer offered her guidance. She took comfort in Warwick's safety, gently healing his wounds, but the man she had called her friend slipped a dagger between her ribs. As her blood spilled, Soraka realized he had fooled her, and everything he had done was a complicated ruse. Feeling humiliated and betrayed she called once more on the power of the stars, searing his flesh and cursing his cruelty. He retreated with an agonized howl, leaving Soraka to reflect upon her fate. Though her life had changed, she felt empowered and renewed with a singular purpose. No longer bound to the grove, Soraka set out into the mortal world, vowing to heal the wounded and protect the helpless.


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Genova Fearbane

Member

10-02-2014

Quote:
Arrion:
Dude it is totally part of her identity. Here's the lore to prove it. Also, I underlined, and made the important text bold in which proves my point.

She stepped into the mortal world for the first time, and soon found Warwick desperately fighting a group of men. She tried to heal him, but for every wound she closed, the men inflicted two more. Soraka realized that she would have to fight to save her friend. The stars screamed in her mind, telling her not to use her powers for harm. Ignoring their warning, she struck the attackers with a flash of brilliant light. Crying out in terror and shielding their eyes from her divine radiance, they fled. Soraka's celestial form faded and the stars fell silent - for her transgression, she became mortal. She still felt the power of the stars within her, but they no longer offered her guidance. She took comfort in Warwick's safety, gently healing his wounds, but the man she had called her friend slipped a dagger between her ribs. As her blood spilled, Soraka realized he had fooled her, and everything he had done was a complicated ruse. Feeling humiliated and betrayed she called once more on the power of the stars, searing his flesh and cursing his cruelty. He retreated with an agonized howl, leaving Soraka to reflect upon her fate. Though her life had changed, she felt empowered and renewed with a singular purpose. No longer bound to the grove, Soraka set out into the mortal world, vowing to heal the wounded and protect the helpless.


And thus you have starcall and her silence.


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CizinDestroyer

Junior Member

10-02-2014

please change soraka back, this new kit is ****ing horrible.


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Arrion

Member

10-02-2014

Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
And thus you have starcall and her silence.


My point is the lore hints that she was able to spam her heal, like she is now, granted it may not of wounded her like it does now, but this seems to match up for the most part. And the fact that Starcall actually harmed them, not tickled them. This implies the current form of starcall along with it's flash on impact which it lacked before is again part of her identity.

So yeah, I do believe my point is proven. And before you go spouting "it couldn't happen with new starcall", yes it could have because the bandits would been around Warwick, in a rather close group meaning they'd be in the area, and if she'd been closer, they would of all turned on her instead, since Warwick needed her blood. "But it would of harmed him too." No it ****ing wouldn't because at that moment she perceived him as a friend and this game, or the lore recognizes friendly fire it seems, because magic is selective like that in Runetera. Meaning Starcall in that first cast would have left him unharmed.


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JustMyBassCannon

Recruiter

10-02-2014

Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
1: Her creator. Again, explain to me how exactly could her kit be used for anything else? Oh no she has damaging abilities! Well of course she does because all champions are required to have at least one ability to deal damage, and that was the flexibility of it.

Could you please prove that Guinsoo said Soraka was supposed to be passive, or are you pulling this out of your ass?

I'm questioning this over and over because I don't believe Guinsoo ever said this
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
2: That you cannot guarantee will proc. Kassadin's mana sustain sucks unless you wanna risk it and go smack a champ. And they aren't the only ones. (Ezreal, Urgot yeah people still play him)

What?

Kassadin's ultimate is a very short cooldown teleport that, for the first two casts, costs rather minimal mana. So he can always land it on the target of his choice. And Sivir's mana generation is a free spell shield that rewards her for blocking a spell (i.e. using it for what it's supposed to do).

Ezreal and Urgot both can build mana items. Hell, Muramana is core to Urgot.

Every single champion you can name already has the means to deal with their mana issues.
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
3: No, her identity, both in game and in lore, was a passive and kind healer who sustained her teammates in lane. Now she can practically force herself out of lane if she can't land her Q because the enemy has evasive abilites or she and/or her adc are poked to bits and she wastes all her health and/or mana keeping them alive.

No, Soraka's old lore was that she cursed Warwick the Alchemist for his murder spree against Ionia, only to have him become a werewolf that still went around murdering people while his successor, Singed, continued doing the alchemy-murdering-Ionia thing

That does not sound passive.
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
4: Tell me the last time someone in bot lane picked ignite. And I guess that means everyone can have innate healing, shielding, mana sustain, and cross-map teleportation. And everyone can buy healing for themselves too with spell vamp and lifesteal.

Almost every single ****ing Marksman ever.

I'm not kidding. The majority of the time, a marksman will take Flash and Ignite.
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
5: Because clutch heals due to increased healing for lower hp targets and deciding when to donate mana or silence someone wasn't interactive at all. No decisions to be made. No sir. And her new interactions, Q and E, are basically copies of Swain E, and Xerath W or Leona Ulti. All her new "interactivity" is just poking.

"Oh no, I need to decide whether my heal would be better at half health or one quarter health"

Except not really, because it also gave them a ****ing huge Armor buff for 2 seconds, so you really only had to heal them when they were going to take a lot of physical damage.

Her old Q was basically a copy of Vladimir's E, and her old E was basically a worse copy of Lulu's Whimsy. You can call anything a "copy" of another spell that works similarly
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
6: Soraka was one of the few remaining champions with an on-target silence, and it lasted an arguably long time, allowing her to disable the enemy support arguably long enough to kill or force the enemy adc away. Her Q all was beneficial in teamfights, especially when they lasted a while, and people really couldn't dodge it, giving it a guaranteed hit.

Those elements also forced Riot to nerf her old kit to the point where she could only use those effects if she specifically built for them, because she was doing too well when nobody could avoid any of her offensive spells and she could give anyone a Rammus-tier Armor buff.
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
While you say she's now reactive, what is she reacting to? All she needs to do is poke and heal. Poke and heal. Like we don't have enough poking supports. And she only sucked at being aggressive if you didn't know how to do it right.

Regardless of what you say, there will always be people who miss old soraka.

Yeah, you have no idea what it means to play reactive. Like I said, reactive play is a player-based choice, not a champion's design. You look at the champion's kit, rub two ****ing brain cells together, and decide, "Okay, I'm only going to cast these spells if the enemy does this." You are the one that's choosing to be passive. It's almost exactly the same as a passive champion, except the champion's entire kit isn't forced to be passive.

Regardless of what I say, people will continue to bandwagon about this **** for another 6 months, then forget about it entirely because the new design actually isn't as bad as your *****ing is loud.


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Omendaos

Senior Member

10-02-2014

Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
2: That you cannot guarantee will procc. Kassadin's mana sustain sucks unless you wanna risk it and go smack a champ. And they aren't the only ones. (Ezreal, Urgot yeah people still play him)

Depending on the target Kassadin can be pretty safe since his passive and Q make him an anti-mage, plus he has mana scaling so you can always build tear and sheen on him.

Urgot got a buff recently which returns some mana to him when last hits with Q, plus tear is core on him.


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Gareth Tankin

Senior Member

10-02-2014

Sigh...
Yes she is playable right now, she was also playable before the rework.
That doesn't mean the rework worked.
I've player her allot, I've come to do very, very well with new Soraka, but that doesn't mean I think the rework is all that well done.

They added depth which is the best part of their rework, it takes allot more to really master new Soraka and that keeps her interesting
BUT
They did screw up here and there.

The biggest issue people had with her (too much lane sustain) is now worse, early on you can pump out 120 health every 4s (hp5 quints + coin) and if your adc capitalizes on the rediculous healing, the sustain just gets more and more obnoxious, but if the adc doesn't you just sit back and watch as the enemy support slowly becomes more and more useful than you.
That's not a good situation.

They completely changed what Soraka is.
Old raka was a super easy to pick up and play support, one who is pretty relevant all through the game and has some leniency in what items you build.

New raka is a tough to pick up support, allot of things can go wrong and make her very frustrating and bad (not place equinox/starcall just right, cast equinox too early, not be positioned right to fallow up with your heal, have your adc not be good/aggressive enough early against allot of comps, get behind in lane against allot of comps, build the wrong items for the situation)

She is pretty snowbally, which I'm not a fan of. If they fixed that and made her 'easy to pick up, hard to master' instead of hard to pick up, I think allot more people would be playing/liking her.


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SirLapse

Senior Member

10-02-2014

Quote:
Gareth Tankin:
Sigh...
Yes she is playable right now, she was also playable before the rework.
That doesn't mean the rework worked.

They added depth which is the best part of their rework, it takes allot more to really master new Soraka.
BUT
They did screw up here and there.

They completely changed what Soraka is.
Old raka was a super easy to pick up and play support, one who is pretty relevant all through the game and has some leniency in what items you build.

New raka is a tough to pick up support, allot of things can go wrong and make her very frustrating and bad (not place equinox/starcall just right, cast equinox too early, not be positioned right to fallow up with your heal, have your adc not be aggressive enough early against allot of comps, get behind in lane against allot of comps, build the wrong items for the situation). To boot the biggest issue people had with her (too much lane sustain) is now worse, early on you can pump out 120 health every 4s (hp5 quints + coin) and if your adc capitalizes on the rediculous healing, the sustain just gets more and more obnoxious, but if the adc doesn't you just sit back and watch as the enemy support slowly becomes more and more useful than you.
That's not a good situation.

She is very snowbally which I'm not a fan of, and hard to get used to which probably alienates most the old Soraka fans.


Honestly with Azir and Gnar being released, Riot is not hesitating to create harder to play champions. And honestly those increase the skill cap of the entirety of the playerbase. So I enjoy this sort of thing.

Being hard to play doesn't make something bad though. I think that's why Azir probably won't be seeing much of anything aside from bugfixes for now.


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supes the lost

Recruiter

10-03-2014

Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
No. First of all, no.

1: Injuring yourself to heal a teammate? Ok I can see that but since when does Soraka have to do that? She's supposed to be a passive lane sustainer and that sort of defeats the purpose. Wanna get that hp you just spent healing your ally with? Ok land a few starcalls. Oh whoops you're out of mana and so is your adc! Too bad.

2: Basically a different version of swain's E. And what happened to the mana restore? She's supposed to be a passive sustainable laner.

3: Starcall was supposed to do laughable damage because it could be applied to as many enemies as you could crowd in a large radius. And Soraka isn't supposed to deal damage. She's supposed to be THE support, the passive lane sustainer who could help her lane buddy and herself stay nearly indefinitely.

4: Ok a better ultimate that removes Grievous Wounds, which defeats the purpose of Grievous Wounds, negating one of her counters.

5: Um, yeah. That's the idea of Soraka. Passive laner good against the aggressive one and could help her ADC survive alot of poke.

6: Soraka isn't supposed to be AGGRESSIVE! She was unique in the sense she was completely passive, which was credited by her own quote: "Heal and protect" now she's another lane bully with heals so she can out-trade, which we already have those. (Karma, for instance)

She feels more alive? No, she feels more suited to YOU. But the entire community is not you, not everyone wants to be aggressive.


There were 2 major reasons Soraka got a rework that changed her from the passive support she was to the slightly aggressive support she is now.

The biggest reason was that people in higher elo's(and in one instance a support who was here complaining earlier) were building large amounts of ap and armor, and just preventing all forms of counter play in the top lane by bulling everyone away with a silence and a hail of star calls.

It's also nice to mention that riot feels that champions with zero interaction(ones who can help/win a lane by standing in one place and using the same skills over and over and over with no repercussion) as they aren't the most intersting to play as or against.

I understand you miss how Soraka worked, more specifically the mana battery design she had, but the way she was wasn't very interactive or fun to fight, in both the bot lane as a support, and in the top lane as a tank.


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Adrian Umbra

Recruiter

10-03-2014

Quote:
Gareth Tankin:
Sigh...
Yes she is playable right now, she was also playable before the rework.
That doesn't mean the rework worked.
I've player her allot, I've come to do very, very well with new Soraka, but that doesn't mean I think the rework is all that well done.

They added depth which is the best part of their rework, it takes allot more to really master new Soraka and that keeps her interesting
BUT
They did screw up here and there.

The biggest issue people had with her (too much lane sustain) is now worse, early on you can pump out 120 health every 4s (hp5 quints + coin) and if your adc capitalizes on the rediculous healing, the sustain just gets more and more obnoxious, but if the adc doesn't you just sit back and watch as the enemy support slowly becomes more and more useful than you.
That's not a good situation.

They completely changed what Soraka is.
Old raka was a super easy to pick up and play support, one who is pretty relevant all through the game and has some leniency in what items you build.

New raka is a tough to pick up support, allot of things can go wrong and make her very frustrating and bad (not place equinox/starcall just right, cast equinox too early, not be positioned right to fallow up with your heal, have your adc not be good/aggressive enough early against allot of comps, get behind in lane against allot of comps, build the wrong items for the situation)

She is pretty snowbally, which I'm not a fan of. If they fixed that and made her 'easy to pick up, hard to master' instead of hard to pick up, I think allot more people would be playing/liking her.

So she can utilize her healing to overbear an opponent and support her ally? I thought that was a feature... And if you're just mindlessly using your heal to top off your ally until the end of time, you're not doing it right.

They increased her skill cap and she's no longer a noob friendly champion? That wasn't one of their goals?

The only thing that I can get behind is the snowbally complaint. So how would you like to go about fixing that? How would you like to drop her skill floor from "hard to pick up" to "easy to pick up, hard to master"? Right now, you're just whining. Make suggestions instead. HOW would you like to see her changed so that she's less snowbally? HOW would you like to see her skill floor dropped?