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Why people *****ing about Soraka's new kit are idiots.

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Arrion

Member

10-02-2014

Okay so I was actually looking through the posts to see if there were already any threads to point out that Azir really isn't a Mage/Marksman, but more of a Mage/Support, but all I see are cry threads about Soraka's new kit and how bad it sucks.

Well let me enlighten you as to why it does NOT suck.

1: Better heal smaller cooldown. Okay yes it takes 10% of your max health, but that's a small price to pay in a team fight if you build right.

2: AoE ground Silence with damage and snare that damages, which is great in team fights because it's hard to see with eight to nine champs stacked on it. Paired with Rylie's Crystal Scepter, this spell is rather devastating now.

3: Starcall no longer does ABSOLUTELY laughable damage, applies a slow, and heals, and even better yet, no longer requires you to be virtually in melee to cast, giving you a viable self heal, form of CC, and harass to help your ADC.

4: Her ult actually works more efficiently now. Before it was a flat rate, but now does bonus healing on allies below a health threshold. This is absolutely amazing if one of said allies is in your W range, you can effectively full heal a buddy in two keys.

5: Better lane presence. With her old kit, all you really did, unless you had a monster ADC, really huge balls, or both, stood as far back as you could, healed when you weren't waiting on that RIDICULOUS cooldown, and acted as a mana battery for your ADC so they could carry longer. This was boring as hell. You stood there for an entire match waiting on cooldowns.

6: Better build path. Before where you just built purely defensive support items like Talisman, Iron Locket of the Solari, Mikael's Crucible and other such items to place shields on your allies, boost their speed, or heal them while removing CC, can now mix it up and be far more aggressive with items like Frost Queen's Claim, Rylei's Crystal Scepter, and other such items.

Honestly, I'm sure I could continue on, but I think I've made my point. This new kit makes Soraka feel far more alive, and when you're paired with champs like Ashe, Jinx, Caitlyn, a crafty Tristana, or Kog'Maw, you should almost always land your Equinox and Starcall spells for maximum effect. Especially with Jinx, has a much better lane presence than she did before. And if you need any further proof, just drop Equinox on Morgana during her ult if the shield is down, or on Fiddlesticks after you see the crows, and watch the hurt instantly stop. Daw, I'm sorry, did I just stop your chance at a pentakill? Here have a banana! Nobody ever expects the banana!


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Genova Fearbane

Member

10-02-2014

No. First of all, no.

1: Injuring yourself to heal a teammate? Ok I can see that but since when does Soraka have to do that? She's supposed to be a passive lane sustainer and that sort of defeats the purpose. Wanna get that hp you just spent healing your ally with? Ok land a few starcalls. Oh whoops you're out of mana and so is your adc! Too bad.

2: Basically a different version of swain's E. And what happened to the mana restore? She's supposed to be a passive sustainable laner.

3: Starcall was supposed to do laughable damage because it could be applied to as many enemies as you could crowd in a large radius. And Soraka isn't supposed to deal damage. She's supposed to be THE support, the passive lane sustainer who could help her lane buddy and herself stay nearly indefinitely.

4: Ok a better ultimate that removes Grievous Wounds, which defeats the purpose of Grievous Wounds, negating one of her counters.

5: Um, yeah. That's the idea of Soraka. Passive laner good against the aggressive one and could help her ADC survive alot of poke.

6: Soraka isn't supposed to be AGGRESSIVE! She was unique in the sense she was completely passive, which was credited by her own quote: "Heal and protect" now she's another lane bully with heals so she can out-trade, which we already have those. (Karma, for instance)

She feels more alive? No, she feels more suited to YOU. But the entire community is not you, not everyone wants to be aggressive.


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Ninpire

Member

10-02-2014

lol what if kennen adc went with soraka he would never have to leave lane


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JustMyBassCannon

Recruiter

10-02-2014

Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
No. First of all, no.

1: Injuring yourself to heal a teammate? Ok I can see that but since when does Soraka have to do that? She's supposed to be a passive lane sustainer and that sort of defeats the purpose.

Since when did they say Soraka is supposed to be a passive lane sustainer?

Yes, she's a healer. Healer and passive sustainer are not the same thing.
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
2: Basically a different version of swain's E. And what happened to the mana restore? She's supposed to be a passive sustainable laner.

What, you mean that utterly worthless mana restore that everyone used on enemies for the silence instead?
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
3: Starcall was supposed to do laughable damage because it could be applied to as many enemies as you could crowd in a large radius. And Soraka isn't supposed to deal damage. She's supposed to be THE support, the passive lane sustainer who could help her lane buddy and herself stay nearly indefinitely.

You seriously need to find that quote where anyone said Soraka's design was supposed to be "Passive Lane Sustainer"

And who said supports aren't supposed to do damage? Because that person is a ****ing ******.
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
4: Ok a better ultimate that removes Grievous Wounds, which defeats the purpose of Grievous Wounds, negating one of her counters.

Grievous Wounds almost has no counter, so the fact that one champion's ultimate can counter it is pretty nice.
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
5: Um, yeah. That's the idea of Soraka. Passive laner good against the aggressive one and could help her ADC survive alot of poke.

It's boring as **** to be passive. The people who actually mained the old Soraka design would specifically build so they could get into the thick of fighting, because standing back and being passive is boring as ****
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
6: Soraka isn't supposed to be AGGRESSIVE! She was unique in the sense she was completely passive, which was credited by her own quote: "Heal and protect" now she's another lane bully with heals so she can out-trade, which we already have those. (Karma, for instance)

The game isn't supposed to be passive. If you want a passive game, play a ****ing MMO.
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
She feels more alive? No, she feels more suited to YOU. But the entire community is not you, not everyone wants to be aggressive.

You don't have to be aggressive as the new Soraka. You can be reactive instead. But now players have the option of being aggressive without having to specialize Soraka's entire build around aggression.


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Genova Fearbane

Member

10-02-2014

Quote:
JustMyBassCannon:
Since when did they say Soraka is supposed to be a passive lane sustainer?

Yes, she's a healer. Healer and passive sustainer are not the same thing.

What, you mean that utterly worthless mana restore that everyone used on enemies for the silence instead?

You seriously need to find that quote where anyone said Soraka's design was supposed to be "Passive Lane Sustainer"

And who said supports aren't supposed to do damage? Because that person is a ****ing ******.

Grievous Wounds almost has no counter, so the fact that one champion's ultimate can counter it is pretty nice.

It's boring as **** to be passive. The people who actually mained the old Soraka design would specifically build so they could get into the thick of fighting, because standing back and being passive is boring as ****

The game isn't supposed to be passive. If you want a passive game, play a ****ing MMO.

You don't have to be aggressive as the new Soraka. You can be reactive instead. But now players have the option of being aggressive without having to specialize Soraka's entire build around aggression.


1: That's her entire purpose. To be a passive healer. Please explain to me what other purpose she had before the rework?

2: Right. Tell that to all the mana hungry champions, no just adcs. (Sivir, Kassadin, etc.)

3: I never said supports aren't supposed to do damage, but Soraka isn't. It isn't a part of her identity. But now I guess we can have all identical poke or tank supports.

4: The counters have to end somewhere. But the thing is that almost no champions have built in grievous wounds, meaning they'd have to buy an Executioner's or Morellenomicon, but Soraka's GW remover is built in, meaning she counters these purchased items regardless.

5: Right. Because her new kit allows her to run in and be in the middle of the fight with her new range increases. And she was mostly passive, but not entirely (W's armor buff, E's silence which you so kindly mentioned) which allowed her flexibility.

6: That's how you want to play it, but playing passively was one of the effective ways of ensuring you don't lose to aggressive champions (Leona, Braum, Morgana). Not everyone has to play this game the way you think it should be played.

While players now have a better foundation for being aggressive, she can't really be played passively effectively anymore.


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EffectFX

Senior Member

10-02-2014

1. Says who.

2. They can easily purchase a number of mana items

3. Says who.

4. She can remove grevious wounds one time. It doesn't hard counter those items.

5. It can, assuming you have some tank items and CDR. Passive doesn't make for good or interesting gameplay. Go play chess instead. Silence is superior now.

6. She can actually play BETTER now as a mage style support since her greater range gives her more lane presence (something she had next 0 of before).


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SorryBoysImLes

Member

10-02-2014

The people playing the new Soraka are idiots..Because they think she's an APC.

I love when the enemy picks Soraka now because they all do the same with her: push lane spamming her starcall and equinox, rendering her manaless whilst overextended and allows for the easiest gank/double kill ever.


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JustMyBassCannon

Recruiter

10-02-2014

Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
1: That's her entire purpose. To be a passive healer. Please explain to me what other purpose she had before the rework?

No, I'm not asking for what you perceive her kit to be. I'm asking you, who said that Soraka's design was specifically to be a passive lane sustain bot?

Did you notice that two of her main interactions--Infuse silencing an enemy champion, and Starcall reducing the cooldown of Astral Blessing--required old Soraka to be aggressive?
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
2: Right. Tell that to all the mana hungry champions, no just adcs. (Sivir, Kassadin, etc.)

Sivir and Kassadin have innate mana sustain that works better than Soraka's old Infuse.
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
3: I never said supports aren't supposed to do damage, but Soraka isn't. It isn't a part of her identity. But now I guess we can have all identical poke or tank supports.

Do you actually know what was core to her identity?

A global ultimate that healed her whole team, a powerful single-target heal, and a silence.

And she kept all three of those elements in her rework.
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
4: The counters have to end somewhere. But the thing is that almost no champions have built in grievous wounds, meaning they'd have to buy an Executioner's or Morellenomicon, but Soraka's GW remover is built in, meaning she counters these purchased items regardless.

Do you know the pick popularity of Ignite?

It is the second-most popular summoner spell, right next to Flash. One of the most common summoner spell selections is Flash/Ignite. So, actually, everyone potentially has innate Grievous Wounds.
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
5: Right. Because her new kit allows her to run in and be in the middle of the fight with her new range increases. And she was mostly passive, but not entirely (W's armor buff, E's silence which you so kindly mentioned) which allowed her flexibility.

Her new kit isn't boring passivity. No, she's not running into the middle of a fight unless someone needs healing, but she's significantly more interactive, both playing as and against.
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
6: That's how you want to play it, but playing passively was one of the effective ways of ensuring you don't lose to aggressive champions (Leona, Braum, Morgana). Not everyone has to play this game the way you think it should be played.

And you can still be reactive which is the same thing you're wanting, except it's passivity by player choice instead of being passive because your champion is **** at being aggressive.
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
While players now have a better foundation for being aggressive, she can't really be played passively effectively anymore.

Again, reactive gameplay over passive gameplay.


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SirLapse

Senior Member

10-02-2014

Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
1: That's her entire purpose. To be a passive healer. Please explain to me what other purpose she had before the rework?


I only remember her being a passive healer because her Starcall was too crappy to use offensively. It's just an adjusted playstyle to a weakness rather than a deciding factor in a champion's true niche.
Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
2: Right. Tell that to all the mana hungry champions, no just adcs. (Sivir, Kassadin, etc.)

Poor things. They probably can't lane witho- oh wait.

Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
3: I never said supports aren't supposed to do damage, but Soraka isn't. It isn't a part of her identity. But now I guess we can have all identical poke or tank supports.

You mean those top lane Soras were punting people because of not dealing damage? Dam, I must be stupid.

Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
4: The counters have to end somewhere. But the thing is that almost no champions have built in grievous wounds, meaning they'd have to buy an Executioner's or Morellenomicon, but Soraka's GW remover is built in, meaning she counters these purchased items regardless.

Only when the ultimate is actually used when GW is applied. People like Miss Fortune and people using Ignite don't even need the items you mentioned.

Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
5: Right. Because her new kit allows her to run in and be in the middle of the fight with her new range increases. And she was mostly passive, but not entirely (W's armor buff, E's silence which you so kindly mentioned) which allowed her flexibility.

I will move in where my team is, like every other non-tank support. Niche heals and basically saves you at least 6 times over if she doesn't even get hit once. Which, with a good initiation, is completely possible.

Quote:
Genova Fearbane:
6: That's how you want to play it, but playing passively was one of the effective ways of ensuring you don't lose to aggressive champions (Leona, Braum, Morgana). Not everyone has to play this game the way you think it should be played.

While players now have a better foundation for being aggressive, she can't really be played passively effectively anymore.


Have you done Soraka vs. Thresh? Poor dude just gets demolished if you start building AP and bait his combos. What's he gonna do? As he presses Q and moves in, you immediately silence the rest of his combo and snare him. The Leona has to activate Q beforehand to escape that, and in that case, you'll know when she's going in.


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Genova Fearbane

Member

10-02-2014

Quote:
JustMyBassCannon:
No, I'm not asking for what you perceive her kit to be. I'm asking you, who said that Soraka's design was specifically to be a passive lane sustain bot?

Did you notice that two of her main interactions--Infuse silencing an enemy champion, and Starcall reducing the cooldown of Astral Blessing--required old Soraka to be aggressive?

Sivir and Kassadin have innate mana sustain that works better than Soraka's old Infuse.

Do you actually know what was core to her identity?

A global ultimate that healed her whole team, a powerful single-target heal, and a silence.

And she kept all three of those elements in her rework.

Do you know the pick popularity of Ignite?

It is the second-most popular summoner spell, right next to Flash. One of the most common summoner spell selections is Flash/Ignite. So, actually, everyone potentially has innate Grievous Wounds.

Her new kit isn't boring passivity. No, she's not running into the middle of a fight unless someone needs healing, but she's significantly more interactive, both playing as and against.

And you can still be reactive which is the same thing you're wanting, except it's passivity by player choice instead of being passive because your champion is **** at being aggressive.

Again, reactive gameplay over passive gameplay.


1: Her creator. Again, explain to me how exactly could her kit be used for anything else? Oh no she has damaging abilities! Well of course she does because all champions are required to have at least one ability to deal damage, and that was the flexibility of it.

2: That you cannot guarantee will procc. Kassadin's mana sustain sucks unless you wanna risk it and go smack a champ. And they aren't the only ones. (Ezreal, Urgot yeah people still play him)

3: No, her identity, both in game and in lore, was a passive and kind healer who sustained her teammates in lane. Now she can practically force herself out of lane if she can't land her Q because the enemy has evasive abilites or she and/or her adc are poked to bits and she wastes all her health and/or mana keeping them alive.

4: Tell me the last time someone in bot lane picked ignite. And I guess that means everyone can have innate healing, shielding, mana sustain, and cross-map teleportation. And everyone can buy healing for themselves too with spell vamp and lifesteal.

5: Because clutch heals due to increased healing for lower hp targets and deciding when to donate mana or silence someone wasn't interactive at all. No decisions to be made. No sir. And her new interactions, Q and E, are basically copies of Swain E, and Xerath W or Leona Ulti. All her new "interactivity" is just poking.

6: Soraka was one of the few remaining champions with an on-target silence, and it lasted an arguably long time, allowing her to disable the enemy support arguably long enough to kill or force the enemy adc away. Her Q all was beneficial in teamfights, especially when they lasted a while, and people really couldn't dodge it, giving it a guaranteed hit.

While you say she's now reactive, what is she reacting to? All she needs to do is poke and heal. Poke and heal. Like we don't have enough poking supports. And she only sucked at being aggressive if you didn't know how to do it right.

Regardless of what you say, there will always be people who miss old soraka.