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Aatrox could use some love (under construction)

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SirLapse

Senior Member

10-02-2014

Quote:
EffectFX:
False. Good for you.

No. Improving blood well will reduce the problems he has when behind.

Also, yes.

He is litteraly was not designed to be a carry. Carries don't get AOE hard CC and mitigation tools that rely on tank stats. Plenty of champion rivals are completely different classes.


"I'm going to say people are wrong and that'll make me right."

You're going to need to give some proof or look like an egotistical person. Fighters aren't carries but have plenty of carry potential. We have Jax and Fiora as proof of that.

I will repeat this again. Blood Well only contributes attack speed numbers in a small amount, and revival HP. That is all it gives. To say that a long ass CD passive revive with a little more hp and SOME attack speed from a not fully filled passive matters, that's literally denying the champion kits problems in favor of preserving how you currently play him.

I also see you ignored the fact that his kit is pretty toxic when handling balance issues with it. They have to keep Aatrox toned down as long as his W functions the way it does.


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EffectFX

Senior Member

10-02-2014

Quote:
SirLapse:
"I'm going to say people are wrong and that'll make me right."

You're going to need to give some proof or look like an egotistical person. Fighters aren't carries but have plenty of carry potential. We have Jax and Fiora as proof of that.

I will repeat this again. Blood Well only contributes attack speed numbers in a small amount, and revival HP. That is all it gives. To say that a long ass CD passive revive with a little more hp and SOME attack speed from a not fully filled passive matters, that's literally denying the champion kits problems in favor of preserving how you currently play him.

I also see you ignored the fact that his kit is pretty toxic when handling balance issues with it. They have to keep Aatrox toned down as long as his W functions the way it does.


It's not that the premise of "Anyone taking Ignite can completely demolish Aatrox" is completely false.

Except you can just look at Aatrox kit and go "Hmm, he's not meant to hard carry games. He's meant to be built tanky with some damage on the side". He has better peel than Jax and Fiora while dealing less damage. Pros and Cons/trade offs etc.

Either decreasing the decay rate, or increasing the time since he was in combat before decay rate occurs will see immediate improvements to his play when he's behind (as well as improving base sieges). 15+ % attack speed is worthless in your eyes, I get that.

I haven't denied anything. I know his kit is toxic. Hence why I have not once suggested buffing any of his numbers. He doesn't need better ratios or better stats. He just needs a little help when he's behind, that's it. I'm perfectly fine with him staying as he is.


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SirLapse

Senior Member

10-02-2014

Quote:
EffectFX:
It's not my fault you're wrong.

Except you can just look at Aatrox kit and go "Hmm, he's not meant to hard carry games. He's meant to be built tanky with some damage on the side". He has better peel than Jax and Fiora while dealing less damage. Pros and Cons/trade offs etc.

Either decreasing the decay rate, or increasing the time since he was in combat before decay rate occurs will see immediate improvements to his play when he's behind (as well as improving base sieges). 15+ % attack speed is worthless in your eyes, I get that.

I haven't denied anything. I know his kit is toxic. Hence why I have not once suggested buffing any of his numbers. He doesn't need better ratios or better stats. He just needs a little help when he's behind, that's it. I'm perfectly fine with him staying as he is.


15% attack speed is worthless when you require 3 hits for a passive that starts to fall off as you continue into the game. You need 3 attacks. Speeding up those attacks by a slight amount will not suddenly make you heal more per hit. And again, those values are later in the game when he starts to fall off. It's as if you're forgetting that he doesn't automatically go to 50% Blood Well in a few moments in the early game, and he can't even lose around 15% until WAY later. He needs 15 seconds to see that "noticeable decay" once he hits lv13 and lv16. Otherwise Blood Well needs to dam well be near 50% to see those losses.

And better peel means nothing and I mean nothing at all when you're dealing with people who already outdamage you. Tryndamere can use W and outdamage you. Trundle can use Q and outdamage you. Fiora can use E and outdamage you. Jax can use E and ignore damage that you're dealing (and can close the gap if you were trying to bait it).

You can only juke so much. Trundle and Tryndamere's methods of beating you aren't even things you can juke out of. If they take Ignite, you've got no chance in hell of beating them unless their CS is being managed by other factors (i.e. your jungler coming in and pushing the laner back). If you need your jungler to even do anything against most top laners, that's not called a healthy kit.

Aatrox needs his W to be more consistent. Decreasing Blood Well decay will not do that for him.


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Dallaskill

Senior Member

10-02-2014

P: Blood Well

Reduce Static cooldown to 180

Passively increase Aatrox’ attack speed by 0.5/0.8/1.1/1.4/1.7/2% for every 2% in the Blood Well.


Q: Dark Flight

Increase Knock up time to 1.5 seconds from 1.

Reduce cooldown by 1.5 seconds for every enemy champion hit.


W: Blood Thirst/Blood Price:

Applies 1/3 the selfheal/damage and HP cost every auto attack instead of every third auto attack


E: Blades of Torment

Reduce its cooldown by .5 seconds per auto attack


R: Massacre

Permanently increase Aatrox’ attack speed by 10/20/30% (stacks with active attack speed)

Change AP scaling to AD

This sounds like it would make it so you would be able to build tank stats without sacrificing your attack speed so much. Just my opinion.


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EffectFX

Senior Member

10-02-2014

Quote:
SirLapse:
15% attack speed is worthless when you require 3 hits for a passive that starts to fall off as you continue into the game. You need 3 attacks. Speeding up those attacks by a slight amount will not suddenly make you heal more per hit. And again, those values are later in the game when he starts to fall off. It's as if you're forgetting that he doesn't automatically go to 50% Blood Well in a few moments in the early game, and he can't even lose around 15% until WAY later. He needs 15 seconds to see that "noticeable decay" once he hits lv13 and lv16. Otherwise Blood Well needs to dam well be near 50% to see those losses.

And better peel means nothing and I mean nothing at all when you're dealing with people who already outdamage you. Tryndamere can use W and outdamage you. Trundle can use Q and outdamage you. Fiora can use E and outdamage you. Jax can use E and ignore damage that you're dealing (and can close the gap if you were trying to bait it).

You can only juke so much. Trundle and Tryndamere's methods of beating you aren't even things you can juke out of. If they take Ignite, you've got no chance in hell of beating them unless their CS is being managed by other factors (i.e. your jungler coming in and pushing the laner back). If you need your jungler to even do anything against most top laners, that's not called a healthy kit.

Aatrox needs his W to be more consistent. Decreasing Blood Well decay will not do that for him.


"Attack speed is worthless when you need to hit anything 3 times", that must be why the vast majority of vayne players rush blade of the ruined king. You don't heal more per hit, you just hit more often so you heal more often, that's all. 450 gold of Attack speed is clearly completely worthless (that was sarcasm by the way). Actually I was referencing his early game values. Where half a bloodwell represents 15%+ AS (15% is half his bloodwell from level 1-4 and it steadily goes up). Early game isn't a problem. It's after level 6 that typically "behind behind" occurs, where half your bloodwell is now 20% AS.

It's when he gets behind, do you understand what "behind" means when used in League of legends? It's where you **** up and give up 2 kills on accident, or where the jungler has set up tent preventing you from safely going into lane and farming, or basically you just have less gold than the other laner (not every match up mind you). Typically it actually isn't a problem until you're against a champion that has a lot of front loaded damage and possibly the means to negate a lot of your damage(Riven level 6 or where she gets 1 kill, Darius, Jax after level 6, Olaf all immediately come to mind). Once they gain a lead on you, you can't sustain and you can't get a full bloodwell.

Do you know what peeling is? It's something you do in teamfights where you protect your carries by using CC on assassins and fighters trying to nail the back line. If anyone is hitting you in a teamfight, they're doing it wrong. Trnydamere and Fiora are easy to beat in lane so you should probably stop bringing them up.

where did juking come from. Oh no, because a small handful of top lane champions (tryndamere not being one of them) has an advantage over aatrox in lane better just throw in the towel and announce him useless. Against Jax, that's why you go hydra route instead of Blade, you get an low cooldown active that can damage jax while he does his helicopter dance as well as somewhat stronger poke on Blade of torment.

Aatrox's W is consistent. It's probably the single most consistent 3rd auto attack proc ability in the game. Bloodwell decay fixes will help him when he's behind without affecting his stats when he's ahead or even at all.


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Big Dirty Deuce

Member

10-04-2014

Aatrox used to be my favorite champion. He's so cool but he really has fallen off I feel like. All he's good for is building like a BotRK and then building full tank/bruiser...The sad thing is the only use he has is split pushing and the only way to do that is if you can get ahead of your lane opponent and sustain yourself so you can stay above everyone in levels.. I like his current kit but I'd like to see some changes.


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justasmiff

Junior Member

10-04-2014

Quote:
Dallaskill:
P: Blood Well

Reduce Static cooldown to 180

Passively increase Aatrox’ attack speed by 0.5/0.8/1.1/1.4/1.7/2% for every 2% in the Blood Well.


Q: Dark Flight

Increase Knock up time to 1.5 seconds from 1.

Reduce cooldown by 1.5 seconds for every enemy champion hit.


W: Blood Thirst/Blood Price:

Applies 1/3 the selfheal/damage and HP cost every auto attack instead of every third auto attack


E: Blades of Torment

Reduce its cooldown by .5 seconds per auto attack


R: Massacre

Permanently increase Aatrox’ attack speed by 10/20/30% (stacks with active attack speed)

Change AP scaling to AD

This sounds like it would make it so you would be able to build tank stats without sacrificing your attack speed so much. Just my opinion.


These are healthy changes, but I have a feeling some of the things you added would make him way too op. If his passive was changed to 2% for every 2%, he could reach 100% increased attack speed, which is definitely what they don't want since they nerfed his passive attack speed already (they being Riot). I think it should be improved, maybe to 1% for every 2%, but not to the point where it's op. Along with this, he shouldn't always get his attack speed bouns from his ult, or there is no point in his passive attack speed. Also, if it's only present when activated, it's really easy to bait someone if you have low health and you can drastically increase your attack speed and turn the tides of the fight. I like his Q changes but maybe just 1 second for every champion hit or make it a percentage based thing, like 10% or 15% for every champion hit. If his ult was changed to scale with AD, then the scaling and possibly the base damage would definitely need to be reduced, since it scales with 100% ability power and does 300 damage at rank 1 (maybe 200, I can't remember). I also think he could use a slight increase in base health or armor, since he's super squishy at early levels for a fighter/tank. I'll add you're suggestion to the original post of the thread. =)


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justasmiff

Junior Member

10-06-2014

New edits may be too powerful. What do you think?