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Aatrox could use some love (under construction)

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EffectFX

Senior Member

10-01-2014

His limitations are not what you think they are.


The actual AS numbers are as such then. For every 1% AS Aatrox gains are .006 AS (which ends up being twice your original estimate). At level 18 Aatrox only needs 233% more AS (not counting ult or passive) to reach the 2.5 cap. 29% more than Teemo who is at the top in that regard. 91% less than Air who is at the bottom.

His level 1 AS bonus from blood well is litteraly twice what you can get from marks.

His blood well decay is his only major problem. It deeply affects his play when he is behind during the early game.


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SirLapse

Senior Member

10-01-2014

Quote:
EffectFX:
His limitations are not what you think they are.


The actual AS numbers are as such then. For every 1% AS Aatrox gains are .006 AS (which ends up being twice your original estimate). At level 18 Aatrox only needs 233% more AS (not counting ult or passive) to reach the 2.5 cap. 29% more than Teemo who is at the top in that regard. 91% less than Air who is at the bottom.

His level 1 AS bonus from blood well is litteraly twice what you can get from marks.

His blood well decay is his only major problem. It deeply affects his play when he is behind during the early game.


What the hell?

First of all, with Blades of Torment existing, filling up the Blood Well and keeping it around 60-80% is not hard. Keeping it at 100% is completely possible in the laning phase. When you're at roaming to other places, you will see a decent decay.

However, you're mentioning as if you have 0 Blood Well from 100 in merely moments. It takes 50 seconds for your Blood Well to fully drain. You're saying that's his problem. 50 seconds. 50. And you're pulling numbers from his 50%+ side, not bottom to all the way up. If you wanna mention late game where all that AS is wasted as he can't build damage items, go ahead, I'm not stopping you.

I also mentioned that I purely ignored my Blood Well's attack speed for the most part. I build it up to a sizable level so it's not empty when I go in, and then that's all. The rest is left up to my team because of how much I start to fall off later. If the Nasus I was fighting actually kept up with me, he would've been able to shut me down pretty often. I couldn't outright duel with him once, not even once, after he got past lv6. That's not "playing him wrong," that's called a match-up. And I seem to come into those match-ups where his laning opponent outscales him pretty often.


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EffectFX

Senior Member

10-01-2014

Yes and because you are forced to use blades of torment you end up losing HP (because you are being zoned and thus cannot sustain. Because you're losing HP you gain less blood well every cast.) So you get a half full blood well while being at low HP. Very good understanding.

No. I am saying that if you're behind (and thus being zoned) you'll never be even close to full without risking a kill or a popped passive. If you're being zoned then you constantly decay, and you end up at half HP/blood well which simply is not a situation you want to be in. The numbers were only to show that he has decent AS per level and base AS. Also he can build damage late game. Works best with 2 damage items and 3 tank items.

I'm not talking about match ups. I'm talking about being behind.9
You're bringing up a champion that out scales every common top laner. Aatrox doesn't fall off as hard as you think assuming you build well. He doesn't scale terribly either.


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SirLapse

Senior Member

10-01-2014

Quote:
EffectFX:
Yes and because you are forced to use blades of torment you end up losing HP (because you are being zoned and thus cannot sustain. Because you're losing HP you gain less blood well every cast.) So you get a half full blood well while being at low HP. Very good understanding.

No. I am saying that if you're behind (and thus being zoned) you'll never be even close to full without risking a kill or a popped passive. If you're being zoned then you constantly decay, and you end up at half HP/blood well which simply is not a situation you want to be in. The numbers were only to show that he has decent AS per level and base AS. Also he can build damage late game. Works best with 2 damage items and 3 tank items.

I'm not talking about match ups. I'm talking about being behind.9
You're bringing up a champion that out scales every common top laner. Aatrox doesn't fall off as hard as you think assuming you build well. He doesn't scale terribly either.


Considering the game didn't last long enough for Nasus to do Nasus things, someone like Fiora could've easily killed me quite a bit on her own.

But I honestly could care less if Aatrox gets behind. Farming under turret is an option that I've frequented on him whenever I needed to, and I managed enough CS to heal up after battles. Aatrox is just that resilient. Blood Well not being full is the last of your worries when you've got a Jax that will basically dodge all of your attacks for a couple seconds.

If you were able to heal earlier, you would not be as behind and you most likely would be able to duel better. I do not see how some small extra attack speed/ hp on revive from Blood Well helps you heal better when a 3 attack requirement is still present. If that's your feast or famine, that only proves my point that the inconsistency is based around W.

And Riot already said that they do not approve of feast or famine champion kits. It's in their list of anti-patterns.


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EffectFX

Senior Member

10-01-2014

Fiora is only dangerous when she has both ignite + ult up. Or if you're constantly getting W baited.

Being able to farm under turret depends on your opponents understanding of well they can freeze the lane. Disengage from Jax while dodge is up. Build towards hydra instead of Blade.

His decay rate absolutely hurts more then a requirement to hit anything 3 times eventually.

Mistakes happen when designing champion kits.


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justasmiff

Junior Member

10-01-2014

I love all the attention this is getting from EffectFX & SirLapse constantly commenting & keeping the thread at the top of the list XD.


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Dallaskill

Senior Member

10-01-2014

I think Aatrox needs his ult and passive changed or mixed up a little! Honestly I think this change would make him much more viable.

Give Aatrox attack speed for how many points in his ultimate he has, having 0 bonus attack speed without it. Blood well is too long of a cooldown considering he needs this attack steroid to be useful.

Take that part that was on his passive, and put an aura buff on him. Inspiring ally champions to do.. something. More ad, resistances, whatever. Maybe base it on how much of whatever Aatrox builds, like allies gain a percentage bonus ad and armor/magic resistance that Aatrox builds, or something. All I know is that Aatrox in current standings cant fair against most anyone else without being super risky and usually failing anyway. Aatrox is the most epic champion in the game imo. All that attack speed in ult.. wow. Please buff him!


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A Corny Name

Junior Member

10-01-2014

I think all he needs is his bloodwell revival cd reduced, I mean come on, sion is going to have a permanent revive, zilean's ult has a shorter cd and he has refresh. It's cd is only one minute short of a GA. Maybe they could change his passive in other ways, like an aoe dmg heal on revive, or some sort of extra stat when blood well is on cd?


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SirLapse

Senior Member

10-02-2014

Quote:
EffectFX:
Fiora is only dangerous when she has both ignite + ult up. Or if you're constantly getting W baited.

Being able to farm under turret depends on your opponents understanding of well they can freeze the lane. Disengage from Jax while dodge is up. Build towards hydra instead of Blade.

His decay rate absolutely hurts more then a requirement to hit anything 3 times eventually.

Mistakes happen when designing champion kits.



Anyone taking Ignite can completely demolish Aatrox. So that's pretty null. The Nasus I was fighting carried an ignite too, and I merely baited it.

I don't care if there's a mistake in a champion kit, nurturing that kind of thing is against Riot's core beliefs. You're defending something that shouldn't be kept in the game.

Also, no. His decay means nothing when I can't heal immediately as I'm fighting someone. You have to remember that attack speed implies auto-attacks, and that also means you're in battle. Aatrox is a sustain type and thus needs sustain to battle. A requirement before he can reach that sustain is a limitation, and it pretty much destroys him worse than small amounts of attack speed.

Why do you think we can't build Aatrox like a carry? Because he doesn't heal per strike. And before you mention that "Aatrox wasn't meant to be a carry" (if you are going to), he was designed to be Tryndamere's rival. So I'm pretty sure they wanted someone who could sustain instead of crit for kit power and uniqueness.


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EffectFX

Senior Member

10-02-2014

False. Good for you.

No. Improving blood well will reduce the problems he has when behind.

Also, yes.

He is litteraly was not designed to be a carry. Carries don't get AOE hard CC and mitigation tools that rely on tank stats. Plenty of champion rivals are completely different classes.