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What has been broken MUST be reforged!

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Naziru

Senior Member

09-27-2014

Quote:
Takeyo Efthulc:
@Angeluslight

First of all, your event idea is simply brilliant. I would play that mode until the server blew a gasket. (I like Kayle)

Secondly, one thing that you seem to touch upon is actually the single most important factor related to this whole situation: none of the stories they have written in disregard of the old lore, either recently or a while back, have anything that entails the removal of the Institute of War. All of them would be much fuller and much more natural if they were treated as sequels to the old stories and built upon them. All of the Freljord changes are perfect examples, and even the Shurima changes work just as you suggest.

Some call it "nerfing the Institute," but it is really just staying true to the classic lore and working toward evolution defined as "continuous growth" rather than "continuous replacement." Continuous replacement may be a fine strategy for reworking outdated champion kits in game, but as many including myself have lamented recently, remove-and-replace does not work in live story development. One must work with what has been published, and when something needs to be completely changed, a story device should be used to write the old out of the story to make room for the new rather than simply erasing the old entirely. In story development, remove-and-replace is jarring, anti-conventional, alienating, and ultimately just looks lazy and careless. No matter how seriously those making the decision take their actions, it's just the impression that will be given by an external overhaul of a published and well-liked story. Internal rewrites may not always go over well either, but people continue to follow the story because it's still the same story. An external rewrite creates an entirely separate story which those who followed the old story, quite frankly, have little to no interest in and therefore have little to no reason to follow.

Wanting to bring in new lore followers, they opt to let go many of the old followers, but I suggest: why not create a compromise that will help to bring in those new followers without alienating so many of the old followers? It is very clear that this change was not a necessity, but rather an elective. That being the case, why not elect to follow a less abrasive and jarring solution? The original post shows how reasonable this suggestion is. Some might even call it simple. A steamroller is the right tool for many, many situations; just not this one. A wrecking ball is the best way to overcome many, many obstacles; just not this one.


I guess Riot never heard of the whole Greedo shoots first fiasco. People literally boycotted the remastered versions over 5 seconds of erased and replaced storyline. What do you think would be the reaction if suddenly the Jedi Council never existed and Jedi are actually independent disconnected warriors wandering around having adventures? The story wouldn't make sense any longer. That is essentially what you seem to be intent on doing with these recent lore retcons.


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Angeluslight

Senior Member

09-27-2014

@Cookiehime

Well, in the scenario I suggested, the Institute of War is not completely destroyed. It's very crippled, but Summoners still retain the powerful magic they have. However, they must extend themselves more physically than just mentally with their connection to their champions. That means they can still have a little role in the story itself. Heck, that could mean that the Summoners themselves would be at war because they have allegiances of their own.

As for using the maps that were a part of the Fields of Justice, remember that they themselves are parts of the world in which much of the stories have taken place in over the past, resulting in the present conflicts they are fought under. They have their own history, such as the Crystal Scar being nuked with time magic to halt the destruction taking place there, or the Howling Abyss being the frozen tomb of the Watchers, which are insinuated as being alive. Even the Twisted Treeline which is in the Shadow Isles with Vilemaw, a vital part of Elise's lore, and she herself has friends in Noxus. Lots of other mysteries with the other ghastly champs that call that place their home.


War would most likely once again break out if the Institute was so crippled as in my suggestion, but it would not necessarily be right away. Not to mention there are darker hands at work that may interrupt the war and cause some unlikely (and uneasy) alliances, just like how enemies may fight on the same team in my explanation that many matches we play are "exhibition matches" to gain support and funding, since the League of Legends is also a spectator sport.

It's a process that can be updated over time and keep the lore going as desired, while also tying gametypes closer to the stories themselves. And it sure beats restarting everything as we know it over.



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@Takeyo Efthulc


Well, you pretty much just expanded the thoughts of this thread. The whole point of my making this thread and bearing a suggestion, not just for starting things off, but to carry on for the future of the game, is to create a compromise to make it so.


After all, without any Institute, the Rune Wars would have not stopped, right? And Noxus would have been too busy warring with Demacia to care about little Ionia. Ashe would probably have a very hard time gaining influence and favor of Freiljord's tribes because she did her fighting in the League, whereas she tries to be the good-girl diplomat at home.

I could go on and on, but the whole point is that it would be complete chaos. The Institute was the very keystone of which all the lore was built on. Just from a plain physics standpoint, when you dismantle things starting from the very keystone, everything falls apart at once. That's basically what is happening now. And since we're talking multiple storylines, everything has to be started from the ground up. Like I mentioned in my post, we wanted more lore, right? To see what happens next? This retcon is removing years of work and years of waiting completely unnecessarily, indeed.

---

@Naziru


I think Riot has forgotten what, sadly, many developers of highly successful games forget over time. Their community.

It always starts there, and continues to bleed out by commercializing their games and selling out with "pay2win" items, or simply by ignoring the very community that built them as they make radical changes that clearly most of (and the most faithful of) the community does not want. To name a very good example, Runescape fits both of those lines.

As in my post, I said the Institute is the foundation of the game, both literally and figuratively, in the game and outside of it. These radical lore changes are not what were sought out by the vast parts of the community, and wind up making us wait LONGER to see any progression as the new foundations of the new lore will take time to create for all regions.

That being said, I cite my original post again saying it's not too late! I feel like we're all trying to act as a lighthouse to stop a major cruise-liner (Riot) from crashing into some very massive rocks, and sinking what made the game captivating to many.


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Angeluslight

Senior Member

09-28-2014

Bump


Please don't forget to share your support on the boards to keep this thread alive when the Boards take over.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/WAzA5bId-what-has-been-broken-must-be-reforged


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AfroSmileyFace

Member

09-28-2014

So Riot, since we're summoners out of the job, do we get reimbursed as compensation for being unemployed? DO we get a retirement plan with a good income of Riot points for the rest of our year? Sounds good to me.


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Angeluslight

Senior Member

09-28-2014

Funny, but let's try to keep to the point of this thread and be constructive on how we can get the Institute and Summoners back while advancing the lore and game appropriately.


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Irongrinder

Senior Member

09-28-2014

Quote:
Tamat:
You're welcome! If you haven't already seen the discussion (http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/TQeLaNU4-update-lore-forum-redirect-removal) regarding why we did the redirect, and our plans to re-add the redirect in the next week or two, please do so!


See, it's responses like these that make me lose faith in Riot.

No, wait, this was it. This was the straw that broke the camel's back. I have NO faith in Riot anymore.


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Angeluslight

Senior Member

09-28-2014

Quote:
Irongrinder:
See, it's responses like these that make me lose faith in Riot.

No, wait, this was it. This was the straw that broke the camel's back. I have NO faith in Riot anymore.



To be fair, Tamat's job seems to be, as his title below his icon suggestions, part of the technical crew to manage and maintain the forums and other "Live Services" on the spot. That could be anywhere from locking threads to banning offenders. So let's not be too harsh on him and understand that his line of work differs from those involved more directly with content production.

However, I will say that it is disheartening to see a wide lack of Riot responses overall, being that only a handful of Rioters seem to make any statements at all on the forums. Even then, their responses seem to be quite vague and fleeting, from what I've seen.

All we can really do is try to get them to actually have a real conversation like this thread aims for. I can't blame Riot's staff for being a bit shy of the forums because of a lot of scrutiny they get, but at the same time, what could they have possibly expected from making such big updates unannounced and uncalled for? I just hope they read this thread, actually start a real conversation, and everybody keeps things civil as not to drive them off. They had a really good thing going on, and I'm so tired of seeing iconic games commit suicide because they turn back on their core elements.


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BerserkInferno

Senior Member

09-28-2014

This is absolutely fantastic.


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Dotintheparadox

Member

09-28-2014

Hey guys, I know that you aren't really fans of the Reddit-esque boards, but you should see some of the stuff on it recently.

Also, the Lore head left earlier this week, it was Tom Abernathy, he had a history of stuff like this apparently. Credits being Halo: Reach (Completely disregarded every novel pertaining to the fall of Reach), and Destroy All Humans (Great humor, but overall lacking.)


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Angeluslight

Senior Member

09-29-2014

I haven't checked the Boards very much in the last couple of days, so thanks for announcing that here. I did read that the head of the department left, but I didn't know who it was, nor if it was confirmed to be true.

I think this is the best news I've heard all week. I would hope that now would be the best time for Riot to notice this thread and share their thoughts. Because of the whole Board/Forum split right when I posted this thread, I may have to re-post it on the Boards. I'd rather not, but it's not floating well enough after the re-redirect.


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