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Maw of Mal needs to be more Gold Efficient.

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PrinceArchie

Junior Member

09-22-2014

Tl: Dr- Maw of Mal is a great item for bruisers who could really use some help against these AP heavy tops and mid during the early-mid game, but it's no where near gold friendly. Chop the cost by 500-700 gold and give it a nice side grade. Something like a Spectre's Cowl or negatron cloak. The pickaxe is just not enough


http://imgur.com/lQ1WeQj

So as of right now the thing costs 3200. I play a top lane Renekton and in this new meta theres a lot of ranged AP around. I'm pretty sure you know where this story goes, once dominant bully top lane is now getting bullied by mid lane and bot lane supps/carries. It feels very different, so much so that I've somewhat abandoned the 9/21/0 tank masteries to adopt 21/9/0 damage masteries since being a tank means next to nothing (unless you're an AP utility like Maokai), taking advantage of Renek's early- mid game presence.

However even when I do dominate lane or fall even and I see the need to build MR I have to go some defensive items, sacrificing my damage for a bit to just go all MR (and some hp) until I can go back to it. Since I've moved a bit away from the traditional tank itemization pattern, I went to Hexdrinker because it gives me attack and MR with a very nice passive. Sadly though it's a horrible in terms of gold efficiency. You get this nice item that gives "ok ish" stats. +25 attack, +25 MR, and passive would be a great early game item but building in mid game with decent AP already built on enemy team is a nightmare.

http://imgur.com/yK8sW6p

So I either build it all the way or abandon it mid way to get more hp and eventually more Mr from something like Banshees Veil, which has a nice Spectre's Cowl I can hold on to for a while. But you see that defeats the purpose of even getting a hex drinker because then I just got more MR, a decent passive, some nice hp and lose out on 25 attack? I mean I could also get the pickaxe to get 25 more attack but thats so menial and lack luster. I'd probably have Merc treads by then too so that just even makes it even worse of an item to build when times ticking.

That seems very lopsided especially in this meta if you ask me building all that MR and sacrificing so much time to get decent AD; when these AP champs build AP really fast, they burn through MR and hp like no tomorrow so it just seems like an uphill battle. I think Hexdrinker and Maw are already great items for players who want to play beefy bruisers, theory wise at least. It's just that it takes way to much to build with no other requirement item like a Spectre's cowl to build into a maw.


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KMannnnn1

Senior Member

09-22-2014

On base stats alone, it's at 92.5% efficiency. At 80% health it's over 100% efficient. And hexdrinker is over 100% on base stats alone. It does not by any means need a price change.

Also, you're missing the point of the item. Maw of malmortius is not a defensive item, and it was never meant to be. It's an item that allows bruisers/assassins to aggressively hunt down and punch in the faces of AP burst mages, getting stronger as they take more damage. It doesn't give you as much tankiness as banshee's or spirit visage because it gives you way more offensive power, and it's not great against poke-based AP champs (most AP tops right now) because it's not supposed to be. If you want an item to make you tanky, buy a tank item. If you want an item to give you damage, buy a damage item.

EDIT: the first image is of Blade of the Ruined King.


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PrinceArchie

Junior Member

09-22-2014

Quote:
KMannnnn1:
On base stats alone, it's at 92.5% efficiency. At 80% health it's over 100% efficient. And hexdrinker is over 100% on base stats alone. It does not by any means need a price change.

Also, you're missing the point of the item. Maw of malmortius is not a defensive item, and it was never meant to be. It's an item that allows bruisers/assassins to aggressively hunt down and punch in the faces of AP burst mages, getting stronger as they take more damage. It doesn't give you as much tankiness as banshee's or spirit visage because it gives you way more offensive power, and it's not great against poke-based AP champs (most AP tops right now) because it's not supposed to be. If you want an item to make you tanky, buy a tank item. If you want an item to give you damage, buy a damage item.

EDIT: the first image is of Blade of the Ruined King.


Lol I just realized that sorry about the item mix up and I hear ya on the purpose of the weapon. By no means am I saying it's bad but if you were to take it in comparison to something thats popular among many bruisers Hydra, it's just a better much easier build into. These AP poke champs are indeed a problem also I'd just like to be able to build something knowing that I'll be able to get the job done when I get in close. I build a tiamat and I know I can sit on that for a while because it's damage boost, AoE and waveclear are so great. Me sitting on something like a hexdrinker and a pickaxe against even some of these burst AP's isn't so great for me down the line.

Keeps me very squishy and doesnt really make me much of a threat. It's very situational to sit on for an extended period of time depending on your team comp and building tanky right now in soloque is just difficult to scale going forward. I think knocking it down a few hundred gold to get it sooner makes it less of a hassle when weighing the options of more attack or more tanky stats. Like I said before I don't see why not giving it something nice to build from besides hexdrinker would be a huge deal either. Against a typical team where AP isnt really a huge threat, but present I could with ease in my mind build A Tiamat and Spectre's cowl because both items give great stats in damage, health and MR that get even better with their final builds.

These items are great mid game choices that you could easily hold on to and build something else for a bit, only needed 1.3-1.4k gold to complete. Then you got Hexdrinker who's stats are "ok" and passive is doable, yet its build partner is a measly pickaxe and the jump without that thing is nearly 2k gold. Against a heavy AP team though that item doesnt even feel too great, it doesnt provide enough MR for you to feel ok with your current MR free to build something else, the passive would only save you from MAYBE one good move and may not even soak all the damage from that one move tbh. The statistical change you get from it in such situations just feels like a huge gamble and of course building toward once again a cowl and into banshees or spirit visage would be better.

But now I've just pretty much said the item isnt worth it, unless you're in a perfect scenario where the AP threat on the other team isnt really high so that the statistical benefits and passive feel significant. If it were a heavy AD comp we have more than enough options for either AD or AP champ to build absurd amounts of AD defense and damage. Literately I revel such a team comp to fight against because it's so easy to build items against early game into mid game, I can rush a hydra while still having enough gold for Ninja tabi and then build randuiens or sunfire in no time. Easily over 200 damage and 150ish AD defense while only like halfway into mid game?

But against AP? Forget about it, you're options are to go really tanky or really damage heavy which just doesnt seem fair imo. Theres no middle ground here. Im only a silver player so perhaps I don't know the tricks of the trade, but then I really can't help but wonder why there is little to no positive response when this question arises from even higher elo players I read from and watch. I think my veiw of the Maw is honestly on the more optimistic side than whats generally perceived and in all honesty if I were to leave this thread satisfied with your answer I'd have to be under the impression that there are Mr/damage builds I can make that are doable, which is sadly not the case.


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KMannnnn1

Senior Member

09-22-2014

*Deep inhale* The reason itemization versus physical damage is so much more varied than that versus magic damage is because of the functional dissimilarities between AD and AP.

Physical damage is all but a guarantee, given that minions, jungle creeps, tower shots, and champion autoattacks always do physical damage, and that physical damage tends to be focused on providing high DPS through the aforementioned autoattacks.

Magic damage is champion dependent, and there are many champs who will deal little to no magic damage, so fewer effective itemization options are needed to combat high AP damage, as well as the fact that AP damage is limited by cooldowns, meaning if you can survive a burst combo, you've all but won the fight as an AD champion.

As far as building for damage and defense is concerned, you actually have more options versus AP heavy comps, with Maw and Mercurial scimitar versus atma's imapaler, which is a heavily flawed item for reasons that are irrelevant to this discussion. And if your idea of itemizing for a mix of defense and offense is building a damage item and a tank item as separate things, then there's nothing wrong with buying a hydra and a banshee's rather than a hydra and a randuin's. Yes, you won't have 300 MR at the end of the day, but for reasons I've already explained, that's not really a problem.

As for maw not having the greatest build path, it's very common for offensive items to have expensive build components or high combine costs. Hydra is honestly kind of the exception in that regard, having a mid tier item to build off of, but that's only because once upon a time, tiamat was the end of that build path, and hydra was added on a while later.

TL;DR: Maw is a cost efficient, decently easy to build item, and itemizing versus full AP teams is just about as easy as itemizing versus full AD teams, because the two damage types tend to behave quite differently.


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Starcall

Junior Member

10-03-2014

Why would you even want maw on Rene just get Vissage and either Brutal or Tiamat >.>


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JustMyBassCannon

Recruiter

10-05-2014

Quote:
Starcall:
Why would you even want maw on Rene just get Vissage and either Brutal or Tiamat >.>

You mean aside from the ability to easily 1v1 dive any mage and gain bonus AD when you have lower HP? Yeah, I can't think of a single reason to take Maw on Renekton.

Sarcasm aside, yeah, Brutalizer and Tiamat are better pure damage items on Renekton, and Ravenous Hydra's sustain is a nice bonus, but I can very easily see myself picking up an early Hexdrinker and going into Maw if I was facing a Swain/Ryze top.

Then again, I don't play Renekton often enough to put that strategy to use. Still a good strategy over pure offense.


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