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phyerbert

Member

09-22-2014

I posted this in the GD thread with the Ultimatum, but I wanted to repost here where the Dominion community would find it more easily, I'm hoping to open discussion on the topic of "is there a way to get the "recognition" we want without getting ranked. So here was my first crack at it. I should really be working at work so I'll set it to the back of my mind till tonight. But give me feedback, post a new idea. I would like to keep it to ideas that would have to be implemented by Riot as I think part of the issue is we want to see them act, not always the community.



This has likely been suggested before but I really liked manwolf's idea about something else. I've also been wondering what it means for Dominion to be "legitimized" or "recognized". I felt Manwolf was doing a really good job of that.

First, I'm not sure ranked gets what we want, though I may be wrong. Ranked gives good players a ladder to climb and feel rewarded by, but if the community stays small it eventually stales out and we're back where we started.

End of Season rewards is a no-brainer, there should be a way to earn them in Dominion and I'd love to hear IDEAS about how, not just griping that there's nothing.

BUT

What about a temporary ranked style event like URF mode or Doom Bots? My stupid name is Dominion Days, where there is some sort of league system to climb. The games are shorter so you could possibly create a brief ranking system that runs for 5 weeks with unique rewards for those who can climb to the top. A "fancy warwick" skin would be a nice tip of the hat to wolf and all the work he puts in. Summoner's icons for newbs like me to strive for. but rewards unique to dominion. This would pull in players to dominion, giving high level players a fresh supply of meat to rip apart. Attract new players to try the mode and perhaps stick around if they enjoy it. And not put Dominion in competition with other maps. You could even run it right after the end of season while you make all your major changes to SR. Maybe a new ribbon like honor in a different corner for your achievement in dominion days, even if it only shows up in dominion queues.

Give high skill players a way to show off, give dominions unique rewards and make them worth it. But running an event annually would keep it fresh and give the dominion community something to look forward to and a chance to grow the community.

This is off the top of my head so I'm really open to feedback, especially from Fancy or Manwolf or Lyte as you have much better heads for this stuff.

(I also think it'd be smart to do this for TT and HA as well, shoot the whole community around from time to time. Give us reasons to try new maps, the other maps inform how we play in all modes and cause us to leave familiar playstyles and patterns)


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Fancy Wolf

Senior Member

09-22-2014

Approve only because of Fancy Warwick.


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KaWraith

Senior Member

09-22-2014

Still sounds like something far beyond the extremely limited powers MWAB has been granted.

Riot wont put any priority time effort or resources into anything for dominion... Even the stupidest, cheapest suggestion we have made: dominion first win of the day bonus and convert the draft queue to a ranked queue (which would be turnkey actions-some initial set up time, and no follow up required.)are considered completely beyond the pale for anything we can expect for dominion.


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molokodude

Senior Member

09-22-2014

Yo I even suggested the simple give dom tournaments an icon for winning as a perk. People love to hunt for icons/achivments. This was prior to every single thing having an icon even so I could still see this. My other case was the ryze skin is getting pretty old now for tournament wins. Retire him for abit or even do a rotation of new tournament skins. I am aware of the fact they could pull a bad stunt like the long wanted DragonMaster Swain for winning dominion tournaments. However riot did want to find a way to experiment with cheap recolored skins no?


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phyerbert

Member

09-22-2014

I'm just curious if there's anything else we could ask for. MWAB was kind enough to be honest about us not getting a ranked queue as it stands, but we DO have MWAB and he does what he can. Most of all he actually listens and responds, which is leaps and bounds beyond where it used to be. Maybe everyone is all "idea-ed" out and the lack of response has been discouraging. I still find dominion to be fun, and for as casual as I am, fun is the end i'm looking for. But I do get that people want some way of having their skill acknowledged too and to have the competitive seen get some recognition.


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Genericke

Senior Member

09-23-2014

Quote:
phyerbert:
I'm just curious if there's anything else we could ask for. MWAB was kind enough to be honest about us not getting a ranked queue as it stands, but we DO have MWAB and he does what he can. Most of all he actually listens and responds, which is leaps and bounds beyond where it used to be. Maybe everyone is all "idea-ed" out and the lack of response has been discouraging. I still find dominion to be fun, and for as casual as I am, fun is the end i'm looking for. But I do get that people want some way of having their skill acknowledged too and to have the competitive seen get some recognition.


Polishing a shiny turd is the expression I believe applies here.


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phyerbert

Member

09-24-2014

I do believe the Mythbusters proved it was indeed possible to polish a turd.

Here's the thing, dominion is fun! The very act of playing is a good chunk of reward. The community run tournaments have created a good venue for high level play, maybe even better than riot can provide because if we want something changed, it gets changed in the way we want on the time schedule we want (extra bans is a great example of this, could you imagine how many forum blitzes we'd need to get extra bans in an actual ranked mode?).

If we want a boost to player pool, I think a tutorial would go much further than a ranked queue. And for people wanting to rate themselves, I think a short term event would be more effective as it would lift the best players above people like me quickly, while pulling in a lot of casual players seeking the reward attached, only to find the REAL reward is playing dominion in the first place (queue generic feel-good music)!

That said, Riot totally dropped the ball on end of season rewards and that needs to get fixed. You shouldn't be punished for playing one mode.


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KaWraith

Senior Member

09-24-2014

I appreciate your enthusiasm... but you seem to be dramatically overestimating what riot is willing to do for dominion.

Quote:
phyerbert:
I do believe the Mythbusters proved it was indeed possible to polish a turd.


But why would you want to?

Quote:
phyerbert:
Here's the thing, dominion is fun! The very act of playing is a good chunk of reward.


The game is mostly unplayable for the vast majority of people, due to bots, and a low top elo population.

Quote:
phyerbert:
The community run tournaments have created a good venue for high level play,


And are pretty dead right now...

Quote:
phyerbert:
maybe even better than riot can provide because if we want something changed, it gets changed in the way we want on the time schedule we want (extra bans is a great example of this, could you imagine how many forum blitzes we'd need to get extra bans in an actual ranked mode?).


It takes 2 patches minimum to get things that are SR-hotfix worthy to be changed in dominion. Extra bans requires real work, and will NEVER happen for dominion unless they change it for ranked and we get it handed off into the draft queue, which is dead anyway.

Quote:
phyerbert:
If we want a boost to player pool, I think a tutorial would go much further than a ranked queue.


Why would anyone bother to look at the tutorial if there is no ranked, no competitive scene, no rewards?

Quote:
phyerbert:
And for people wanting to rate themselves, I think a short term event would be more effective as it would lift the best players above people like me quickly, while pulling in a lot of casual players seeking the reward attached, only to find the REAL reward is playing dominion in the first place (queue generic feel-good music)!


A short term event would require resources Riot will not give to dominion, EVER. not going to happen.

Quote:
phyerbert:
That said, Riot totally dropped the ball on end of season rewards and that needs to get fixed. You shouldn't be punished for playing one mode.


This was a huge subject in season 1, season 2, season 3, and now it's season 4 and they are still going to do nothing. what are you expecting here?


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phyerbert

Member

09-24-2014

I'm expecting us to think carefully about what it is to be recognized. The attitude is that riot doesn't notice dominion, and that statement is much less true than it used to be. We're not on par with SR and never will be but we also need to be careful that we're asking for the right things. For example if Lyte is right in saying the vast majority of SR players don't play ranked, then a competitive scene won't draw in a large player pool. A tutorial will bring in new and inexperienced players and give them a basic understanding, this might curb early confusion and frustration that would drive a new player away.

In truth, riot has been giving dominion some resources, Ascension was a nod to dominion more to anything else. These are small but they aren't nothing. And a 'Dominion Days' would be less resources than a new game mode as it would only be a competitive system for an existing map. Honestly, even a summoner icon would pull in a lot of people for that event.

So if we had a list for MWAB to look at as top priorities for dominion would it be like this?

- Clean out the bots
- Find a way to give dominion end of season rewards (do we want to earn the same rewards? or get unique ones?)
- Give the competitive players goals to achieve or some sort of badge to show off (is this a desire?)

What else would you add to the list?

I don't expect riot to give all or maybe even any of this, I just want us to be pulling in one direction together as a community and carefully considering what we REALLY want before we ask.


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KaWraith

Senior Member

09-24-2014

I just totally disagree with you. Riot knows what we want, and they simply couldn't care less about it.

Also: Ascension was not a nod to dominion... we talked to the people who designed ascension, they don't care about dominion at all, and were frankly confused that we thought they might.


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