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Proof that Xerath is Jafaresque evil villain now

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MortalPrisoner

Junior Member

09-20-2014

Quote:
Jaredan:
From the perspective shown so far, Xerath was the villain of the piece. Xerath would likely disagree, he had his reasons to betray the young emperor.


I'm not really sure betrayal is really pardonable unless you're betraying Hitler. You know the worst circle of hell is reserved for betrayers and cultural touchstones like that. Besides Xerath having his own perspective is a moot point.

Every villain is going to have their reasons. It's only interesting if a neutral party (i.e. the audience) can understand or support Xerath's decisions as morally equivalent to Azir's. Of course Xerath right now is just some power hungry lunatic as far as I can tell, so even if he has reasons, they can be dismissed.


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IMTOOJUICY

Senior Member

09-20-2014

Quote:
TerraRising:
This is one of a number of problems we have with the Lore.

I would say it is the biggest problem. Just need more content in general.


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TerraRising

Senior Member

09-20-2014

Quote:
IMTOOJUICY:
I would say it is the biggest problem. Just need more content in general.

The biggest problem is a historic lack of communication.

Narrative/Lore makes sweeping changes to the story without context or explanation, then says "These are the changes we're making, we know better and stop complaining, please stop complaining, we're going to go hide now so **** off!"

And, whenever we do get any attempt at an explanation, it's more of a condescending lecture than actual talking.


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LordHippoman

Recruiter

09-20-2014

Quote:
Sharjo:
This may come across as me being an arse, so I'm sorry if that's the case and I'll try and word this in a way that's to the contrary. Knowing the villain's reasons is one of the biggest questions of ANY story with a bad guy. Finding out the reasons why is usually an integral part of the story, and it's not really something you just unload when you kick things off. At least, as far as I'm aware that's what happens most of the time with villainous motivation. The reasons behind Xerath's betrayal of his people, his Emperor, and everything he knew in life are too juicy to not deserve their own part of the story, as it develops.

Basically, stories progress. Discovering villain motivation, providing their is a villain, is usually part of said progression. We just started Shurima's "saga" so to speak, so it's gonna be a while coming, especially considering Riot's unfortunate track record with progressing stories. =(

I do hope that didn't come across as me being an arse, if it did, again sorry, don't wanna step on toes and stuff. =(

Nah, you don't sound like an arse at all. That's a really good point. My only worry is that we're just going to sit on that and totally ignore it. We've reached the end of the Shurima event, all the videos are out, and nothing has come of it yet. Historically, with the Shadow Isles and Freljord events, we didn't learn anything else new after the event ended, so the window of opportunity is closing.

I personally wouldn't be too rattled without any big overriding reason for Xerath doing what he did except for "free power", because we don't need every villain to have some lengthy excuse and make you think "But who's the REAL villain?" But that's hard for a lot of people who didn't ever see him as a villain in the original Lore, which is understandable. His character definitely had more nuance before the retcon. It just feels like a "now or never" kind of thing with his reasoning being revealed, unless the new lore is delivered more frequently/consistently than the old one. And, I'll be honest, we have no JoJ, no Judgements...that's going to be hard.


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IMTOOJUICY

Senior Member

09-21-2014

Quote:
TerraRising:
The biggest problem is a historic lack of communication.

Narrative/Lore makes sweeping changes to the story without context or explanation, then says "These are the changes we're making, we know better and stop complaining, please stop complaining, we're going to go hide now so **** off!"

And, whenever we do get any attempt at an explanation, it's more of a condescending lecture than actual talking.

That is a problem, but more frequent and more in-depth content delivery would alleviate that problem indirectly, if not directly. For example, the Shurima videos were unsatisfying for a variety of reasons, but for me, the biggest issue was that they tried to cram the stories of 6 champions into 6 minutes. And these are not simple stories like the one portrayed in the Imagine Dragons video (faceless gamers want to become a world champ, got it). The Shurima stories are supposed to weave a web of deceit, power struggles, betrayal, heroics, resurgence, etc etc. This is not a web that can be covered in 6 minutes. As for the followup, a lot of details and explanations have remained under wraps so far (maybe because the event isn't over yet), leaving those champions' fans wanting for more. The brief in-game bios and brief video, understandable. The lack of followup so far in terms of extended bios, not so much. The release of such additional Shurima content would probably address many questions out there.

As for the league retcon, they did give an explanation in the dev blog. It's just that most people found the explanation to be unsatisfactory. Myself, I'm on the fence because, while I think the League is a viable concept, I do not think the summoner concept, as currently portrayed in the JoJ, makes for satisfactory story-telling.


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Nastra Dark

Junior Member

09-21-2014

Quote:
Jaredan:
From the perspective shown so far, Xerath was the villain of the piece. Xerath would likely disagree, he had his reasons to betray the young emperor.


The problem is that we're at the end of the Shurima event. The videos are out and arguably the company is moving on to worlds things and then onto whatever the next event in the queue is. The window of timeliness is closing so to speak.


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Philomelle

Member

09-21-2014

Quote:
IMTOOJUICY:
That is a problem, but more frequent and more in-depth content delivery would alleviate that problem indirectly, if not directly. For example, the Shurima videos were unsatisfying for a variety of reasons, but for me, the biggest issue was that they tried to cram the stories of 6 champions into 6 minutes. And these are not simple stories like the one portrayed in the Imagine Dragons video (faceless gamers want to become a world champ, got it). The Shurima stories are supposed to weave a web of deceit, power struggles, betrayal, heroics, resurgence, etc etc. This is not a web that can be covered in 6 minutes. As for the followup, a lot of details and explanations have remained under wraps so far (maybe because the event isn't over yet), leaving those champions' fans wanting for more. The brief in-game bios and brief video, understandable. The lack of followup so far in terms of extended bios, not so much. The release of such additional Shurima content would probably address many questions out there.

As for the league retcon, they did give an explanation in the dev blog. It's just that most people found the explanation to be unsatisfactory. Myself, I'm on the fence because, while I think the League is a viable concept, I do not think the summoner concept, as currently portrayed in the JoJ, makes for satisfactory story-telling.


The other issue is that the Shurima videos more or less forced their plot to happen without considering how the characters would affect it. The videos felt like they came up with events beforehand and then arranged the champions into roles approximately fitting for them in the event, rather than come up with a premise and then try to plot out how characters would handle it.

The biggest and most grating problem there is Sivir, whose behavior in the Shurima videos is nothing like how she behaves in the game. The result is that her narrative identity is completely confused (is she a hardcore mercenary who goes wherever the profit takes her? a gentle leader who breaks down when she sees her men die and hastily allies herself with the first thing to offer her help? which is it?), so I imagine she'll actually become less popular because people who'll pick her up because of videos, will quickly drop her once they realize she's nothing like the videos portray her.

The promise in the post about retconning the Institute out of existence was that with it gone, the narrative team will be able to write more character-driven stories that would have been impossible to tell otherwise. Not only is the Shurima event possible to tell with the Institute in place (in fact, the Ascension game mode would have made more sense that way), but the characters in it are treated as soulless props that could have been easily replaced by anyone else who fit the basic parameters required by the role.


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Shokah

Member

09-21-2014

She's a confused princess with a destiny now =/

Bleh.


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Philomelle

Member

09-21-2014

Quote:
Shokah:
She's a confused princess with a destiny now =/

Bleh.


A princess with a destiny would have a kingdom to support her. She wouldn't need to say things like:

"I always take my toll - blood, or gold."
"I'll fight for a cause. I won't die for one."
"Wealth is my kind of burden."
"Kings come and go, but gold stays."
"Everyone has a price."
"Get paid, and get out."
"Don't get between me and my gold."

Which is my point. Between her in-game quotes and her Shurima event presence, it feels like the lore team has no idea about who Sivir is or what she's supposed to represent. She's just some face they paste onto whatever role is needed in their latest desert-themed story.


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Shokah

Member

09-21-2014

It's not to say she had a great backstory, but isn't *Ashe* the ADC with the heroic destiny backdrop? How many do we need?