Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


How much damage do sorcerer boots actually add?

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IS1124f4ca543edf01dd835

Member

09-16-2014

Quote:
falkenjeff:
I have never considered flat penetration to be a serious stat. % pen seems to be the only thing that makes a significant difference.
That's a silly trick that our brain plays on us.

You'll see: "+15 Magic Penetration" and "+15% Magic Penetration" and your first instinct will be that the second item is better than the first one, completely forgetting that for the majority of the match, the majority of your opponents has less than 100 MR (so the first item actually gives more Penetration).

Anyway, the damage mechanics are pretty straightforward:

FINAL DAMAGE = BaseDamage / 1+(MRES/100)

In "less-mathey" talk, this means that for each 1 point of Magic Resist, you're 1% more durable against Magic Damage, compared to what you'd have been with 0 MR.


So, let's say a champion has 1200 HP. If Magic Resist did not exist, you'd simply need to deal 1200 base Magic Damage and he'd be dead.
Now, if he has 30 Magic Resist, he's 30% more durable against Magic Damage... meaning that you'll need to deal what would have been 1560 damage to kill him.
In this case, having 15 Magic Penetration would reduce the amount of needed base Magic Damage to 1380.

So, in this specific example, 15 Magic Penetration meant you saved yourself from having to deal 180 more base (tooltip listed) damage. Probably meaning you had to spend one less skill to kill your target.

As a rule of thumb, the less Magic Resist your target has, the more effective Flat Magic Penetration becomes (except when you already have enough to drop them down to 0 MR, it can't go negative, but this doesn't happen often anyway). Also, the more HP your opponents have, the more efficient their Magic Resist is, so Penetration also becomes more important.
And, last but not least, when you already have tons of Ability Power, adding Magic Penetration will increase your damage more than adding more AP would (since it end ups being a relative increase based on your current damage).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sageoffire

Senior Member

09-16-2014

Quote:
GunbladeKnight:
I thought armor and mr were essentially a 1% damage reduction per point, so flat mpen would be a 1% increase in damage per point.


not quite. every point of MR or AR gives you 1% more effective HP. every single point is exactly the same in terms of how much it helps regardless if you have 10 AR or 100 AR or 400 AR.

so every poit of penetration is effectivly 1% less HP that you have to burn through on your target.

early game, having 15 Mpen against a 1000 HP target means 150 less damage that you have to do. late game, that 4000 HP Chogath loses 600 HP just because you are wearing shoes.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

BACKSTABUUU

Recruiter

09-16-2014

Quote:
IS1124f4ca543edf01dd835:
As a rule of thumb, the less Magic Resist your target has, the more effective Flat Magic Penetration becomes (except when you already have enough to drop them down to 0 MR, it can't go negative, but this doesn't happen often anyway).

Last I checked, it can go below zero, but only if they're afflicted with a flat magic resist reduction, like Amumu's passive.

But yeah, like you said, it doesn't come up. I don't think I've ever seen someone get negative defensive stats.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IS1124f4ca543edf01dd835

Member

09-16-2014

Quote:
BACKSTABUUU:
Last I checked, it can go below zero, but only if they're afflicted with a flat magic resist reduction, like Amumu's passive.

But yeah, like you said, it doesn't come up. I don't think I've ever seen someone get negative defensive stats.
Yes, you need a Reduction (like Amumu's, Fiddlestick's or Abyssal Scepter) to go bellow 0.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Militiaman293

Senior Member

09-16-2014

I find on certain champs such as Karthus they do way more with Liandry's, Sorc boots and Void staff.

That is without getting deathcap.

When I ult, people feel it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Imminent42

Senior Member

09-16-2014

Case 1: 50 MR no Void Staff
Base Case: 50 MR = 33% resistance
Sorc Shoes: 50 MR - 15 MR = 35 MR = 26% resistance
If you do 1000 magic damage in the base case it will be reduced to 667 damage.
If you do 1000 magic damage in the Sorc Shoes case it will be reduced to 740 damage.

Increase in damage = 73
Percentage increase in damage = 11%




Case 2: 100 MR no Void Staff
Base Case: 100 MR = 50% resistance
Sorc Shoes: 100 MR - 15 MR = 85 MR = 46% resistance
If you do 1000 magic damage in the base case it will be reduced to 500 damage.
If you do 1000 magic damage in the Sorc Shoes case it will be reduced to 540 damage.

Increase in damage = 40
Percentage increase in damage = 8%




Case 3: 200 MR no Void Staff
Base Case: 200 MR = 67% resistance
Sorc Shoes: 200 MR - 15 MR = 185 MR = 65% resistance
If you do 1000 magic damage in the base case it will be reduced to 333 damage.
If you do 1000 magic damage in the Sorc Shoes case it will be reduced to 350 damage.

Increase in damage = 17
Percentage increase in damage = 5%


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Free Reset

Senior Member

09-16-2014

Quote:
falkenjeff:
I have never considered flat penetration to be a serious stat. % pen seems to be the only thing that makes a significant difference.

That being said, on every mage (Akali, Malzahar, etc - all of them), I never buy Sorc Boots. I always get Ionian Boots for that nice 20% CDR with masteries. My logic is, being able to cast my skills a lot more is going to do more damage than a silly flat penetration item.

But what does the actual math say? :O

the actual math says that boots are the most OP item in the game at every upgrade and level and they are purely what situation requires them.

If you buy the same boots every game, that doesn't mean you're making a mistake, but that does mean you aren't abusing how overpowered they are. CDR > MPEN sometimes and CDR < MPEN sometimes


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

falkenjeff

Senior Member

09-16-2014

@everyone: thanks for all the answers. So from what I can tell, this is the tl;dr summary: flat pen boots are always better on assassins who will only have one chance to do a full combo, and then will either die or disengage. CDR boots will be equal or better on people who will always have a chance to throw some extra abilities into a fight. CDR boots will always be better on a tank than flat pen boots, if you opt to not buy the tank boots or fast boots. I will never again question my CDR boots on my hybrid damage tanky Evelynn. I'm still going to be really confused with Malzahar (because voidlings).

Please continue to post useful information. I will read it all. Thank you .

Quote:
BazookaTroopa:
A lot early game even after void because of the pen rework. Sorcs always good.. Never go Ionian on Alkali.. If anything grab mercs


On Akali specifically, I buy them because of her ult. If I'm smart enough to not get nuked and die, it effectively gives me 4 charges on my ult instead of 3, because it already has a ridiculously low cooldown. And damage aside, mobility is OP.


12