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How much damage do sorcerer boots actually add?

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falkenjeff

Senior Member

09-16-2014

I have never considered flat penetration to be a serious stat. % pen seems to be the only thing that makes a significant difference.

That being said, on every mage (Akali, Malzahar, etc - all of them), I never buy Sorc Boots. I always get Ionian Boots for that nice 20% CDR with masteries. My logic is, being able to cast my skills a lot more is going to do more damage than a silly flat penetration item.

But what does the actual math say? :O


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Brigadier Teemo

Senior Member

09-16-2014

Quote:
falkenjeff:
I have never considered flat penetration to be a serious stat. % pen seems to be the only thing that makes a significant difference.

That being said, on every mage (Akali, Malzahar, etc - all of them), I never buy Sorc Boots. I always get Ionian Boots for that nice 20% CDR with masteries. My logic is, being able to cast my skills a lot more is going to do more damage than a silly flat penetration item.

But what does the actual math say? :O

I believe that flat pen is applied AFTER % pen, which makes it infinitely more useful.


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Aefre

Senior Member

09-16-2014

10^-12


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BazookaTroopa

Member

09-16-2014

A lot early game even after void because of the pen rework. Sorcs always good.. Never go Ionian on Alkali.. If anything grab mercs


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HasteHastix

Senior Member

09-16-2014

Lets say you do 1000 damage to a target with 40 magic resist (28.6% damage reduction)
You would do 1163 damage to the same target with Sorcerer's Boots by reducing their magic resist to 20 (16.7% damage reduction).

A overall 16.3% damage increase. In other words, if an AP champion's total AP ratio was 2.5, it would be similar to adding on 65 AP.


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shppy

Senior Member

09-16-2014

in the best case they can provide a 15% magic damage amp (that case being the enemy having exactly 15 effective MR without considering your sorc boots)


Generally you don't draw that case, but most of the time they're still responsible for an 8-12% damage amp. Even against a 115 MR target they still provide a 7.5% amp.


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iamt3n

Senior Member

09-16-2014

Quote:
falkenjeff:
I have never considered flat penetration to be a serious stat. % pen seems to be the only thing that makes a significant difference.

That being said, on every mage (Akali, Malzahar, etc - all of them), I never buy Sorc Boots. I always get Ionian Boots for that nice 20% CDR with masteries. My logic is, being able to cast my skills a lot more is going to do more damage than a silly flat penetration item.

But what does the actual math say? :O


Flat pen is far better than % pen when the number is low (and you buy sorc shoes relatively early on as well since its cheap)

Lets not count ENEMY mr runes for a second

Most mages start with 30MR at lvl 1. From runes lets say you get 10 (think reds give you 7.8 but lets just say 10 for easy math)

Lets say your Q does 100 damage.

With your mpen runes alone, you will do 100*( (30mr - 10 pen) / (30mr-10pen + 100) = 100* (20/120)

Here we see their MR after your mpen protects them from 16.66% of the damage so your Q will do 83.33 damage.

Now lets say you get some sorc shoes (20mpen) with your 10mpen runes, you will negate ALL of their MR thus doing 100% the regular damage.

100 damage = 20% more damage than 83.33. Congratz with this one item, youre now doing 20% more damage than you wouldve.

Remember mpen >>>>>> %pen at lower values. If everyone in the game has over 150MR, i would sell my sorc shoes for CDR/Mercs and just get a void because at that point, it is much more efficient

Depends on your champ, but with CDR, you might do more damage if you get to use all your abilities multiple times in one fight. Depends on your playstyle and champ, but I personally rather get the front burst of the sorc shoes (20% amp damage) than the chance that i MIGHT have more chances to use my abilities. It definitely matters on who you are playing for sure.

tldr SUMMARY
Its definitely the case of the rifle vs a machine gun with plastic bullets. Obviously the machine gun can do far more damage overall, but what if you only had 1-2 shots to hit someone? Youd definitely go with the rifle (sorc shoes) rather than the machine gun (cdr boots)


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BACKSTABUUU

Recruiter

09-16-2014

It's been a while since I've looked at it, but the way I've always understood is that the effectiveness of flat pen depends on how much MR the target has. As you get more individual points of MR, the worth per point goes down (worth being the percentage of damage blocked per point). You'll notice as you stack defensive stats, you get less and less damage reduction per point of resists.

Because of that, I always understood it to be like this: Flat Mpen is stronger against targets with low MR, while percentage is better against targets with lots of MR. When people are at low amounts of MR, the percentage penetration from void staff doesn't remove as many points of MR from the target as a flat 10 or 20 would, and those points are worth more. As they stack more, then you're getting into an area where percentage pen is taking away more points of resists than flat, which is what you want to do, because those points aren't worth as much as if they had like, say, 70 MR.

That's also why flat Mpen tends to be better early in the game than later, because people don't have a lot of MR at that point.


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b0rg

Senior Member

09-16-2014

Useful info here.


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GunbladeKnight

Member

09-16-2014

I thought armor and mr were essentially a 1% damage reduction per point, so flat mpen would be a 1% increase in damage per point.


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